MISSING: Asha Degree

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi Crime Junkies, I'm your host Ashley Flowers and I'm Britt and welcome to the first episode of 2019. I hope you all had a wonderful New Year's Eve. I know I had a wonderful New Year's Eve at our Crime Junkie party. I know Britt couldn't be there. It was insane. We had over 120 Crime Junkies come out and it wasn't just Crime Junkies from Indiana like I expected. We had people fly in [01:00] wild yeah there is this time-lapsed like one minute video of the party that everyone needs to go check out on our instagram at crime junkie podcast but i truly had the best time ever it was so amazing meeting these fans talking dancing the night away i want to live in my sequin jumpsuit that i had made it was amazing yeah you sent me a picture of yourself getting ready and i was like [01:22] How much fashion tape are you wearing? Yeah, not fashion tape. It was fashion glue. I was glued into that jumpsuit. Oh my gosh. But you looked like a rock star. Um, and speaking of rock star, so even before the party, we're getting ready new year's Eve and Brit, you called me crying. And do you want to like tell people why? Yeah, I was getting ready to go to the wedding that I had on new year's Eve and I was just scrolling through Twitter and I noticed that an amazing writer who

[01:52] for Rolling Stone on the Best True Crime Podcasts of 2018. [01:56] And we were there. [01:57] Yeah, her name is Laura Barcella. She is my favorite person in the world right now. But we got named in Rolling Stone. And it's not even that we got named. Oh my gosh. It's the company that we were in, Brent. Yeah, amazing, amazing shows that we love and adore. Yeah, we look up to these people. It's like been a dream of ours to create anything that would be in like the realm of these other people. But to see our names like right next to them is... [02:20] Insane. Amazing. Yes, it was so flattering. So amazing. We are so thankful to everybody who's been listening and sharing. The only reason we're in the top charts of iTunes right now is because of all of you telling your friends and family and getting the word out. And we appreciate it so much. And actually, one of the things that Laura mentioned in the article that we do and that we like to do is talk about underreported cases. So I figured there is no better way to start 2019 [02:50] underreported case of a nine-year-old girl named Asha Degree who went missing back in 2000. [02:57] Music

[03:28] This is one of the stranger disappearances of a young child I think I've ever read about. And there are a couple of online forums and YouTubers that have talked about this case, but I'm a little surprised it hasn't gotten more attention. So that's what we're aiming for here today. Our story takes place in February of 2000 in a small town called Shelby on the western outskirts of Charlotte, North Carolina. The little girl we're talking about. [03:55] Aisha is nine years old at the time, and she lives at home with her 10-year-old brother, O'Brien, her mom, Iquilla, and her dad, Harold. [04:04] Sunday, February 13th, was a fairly unremarkable day for the degrees. That Sunday, they went to church, they ate lunch at their aunt's house, had some candy that they'd gotten for Valentine's Day, which was just around the corner, and they went home with their mom. Their dad didn't go home that day and stay with them because he had to go work at his second job. Iquilla had a normal routine for the kids. [04:34] prevented them from getting their nightly bath. So the kids went to bed at their normal time, around 8.30... [04:40] Aisha in her white nightgown with red trim and her hair and pigtails, [04:44] knowing that they would have to wake up a little bit early to get that bath that they missed the night before. [04:50] And I got to be honest, Britt, the next part... [04:52] is where my research kind of falls off a bit. Things get really fuzzy because I went in circles online trying to figure out exactly what happened in this short couple of hours. I wanted to know the exact movements of everyone in that house, everyone in the family between 8.30 and 2.30 in the morning. And I finally had to give up because...

[05:16] My head was just spinning. There's just nothing out there? Ah, there's stuff out there. [05:22] But my problem is there's a bunch of conflicting stuff out there, and I am having a really hard time tracking down all these conflicting accounts to an actual source. [05:34] So [05:35] I don't know where all this is coming from. These news articles from 2000 are really, really hard to find. [05:41] So let me kind of tell you [05:44] the couple of things that are said about what happens between 8:30 and 2:30. [05:48] One account says that around 12:30, Harold returns home from his job, and by this time, the power has been turned back on in the home. Now, all of them agree that sometime in the night, the power comes back on. That's not really what's in debate. It's really what time does Harold get home and does he stay home? [06:05] Now, some articles and forums say that he watches TV to kind of unwind before he goes to bed around 2:30. [06:12] Other places I found, say he gets home, then goes back out to buy Valentine's Day candy for the kids, and then gets home later and again goes to bed at 2.30. [06:22] Still other places say that after work, he went directly to get candy and then came home later, but again in bed by 2.30. And in one or two places that I could never track down to any source, it even says that supposedly there's a version of this story that... [06:40] where he gets home at 12:30, and Aisha is on the couch, dressed in normal clothes, watching TV, and her dad tells her to go to bed.

[06:49] Which is the strangest of all of these. Yeah. But again... [06:53] cannot track it to any real source, so I have no clue what's real and what's not. And this is the problem with underreported cases, and especially underreported cases from almost 19 years ago. I can't find the actual news articles to see where people got this, who's telling what, is this just a bad game of telephone where the story keeps changing the more people tell it online and the more people exaggerate and elaborate. [07:19] Or is Harold's story actually changing each time? [07:23] And I tend to lean more towards the former, thinking that people are making this up years later, trying to create suspicion to give themselves some kind of answer in a case where there is none. But I'll get more to that later. [07:38] So what happens between 8:30 and 2:30 is fuzzy, but according to multiple sources, and this is where we kind of get back on track and everything starts to agree again—the FBI's website, the Charlie Project's website— [07:50] Aisha's dad says he checks on the kids before going to bed around 2:30 and he sees them both sleeping. And just of note, O'Brien and Aisha actually share a room so he's able to check on both of them at once. [08:03] Later in the early morning hours, O'Brien wakes up and sees Asia standing in their room. And it's thought that she may have used the restroom and then gone back to bed. Because shortly after this, O'Brien hears her bed like creaking, but he doesn't look over. He just assumes that she's moving around in her bed. Right. But not placing eyes on her could have been a mistake.

[08:24] because just a few hours later, [08:26] at 5:45 in the morning. [08:29] Iquilla's alarm goes off. She set the alarm early that morning to give the kids their bath before getting them off to school. [08:36] When talking about that specific morning, Iquilla was quoted telling a newspaper reporter [08:42] I woke up on February 14, 2000 at 5:45 a.m. The alarm went off for my children to go to school at 6:30 a.m. I went to the bathroom two feet away from the door to start the bathwater because they could not take a bath the night before since we had a power outage. [08:57] I open their bedroom door, [08:59] "My son O'Brien was under the covers, as he usually slept. I called his name and he jumped up, as usual. [09:05] I realized that Aisha was not in her bed. [09:09] Thank you. [09:09] She goes on to tell the same reporter how she frantically started searching the house. She says she looked beside O'Brien's bed because sometimes Aisha would lay there, but she wasn't there. [09:19] She checked the living room. Maybe she'd gone to lay on the couch. [09:23] But she wasn't there. [09:24] She checked the kitchen, [09:26] then all the closets in the house, and this is when she realizes that Aisha is nowhere in the home. [09:32] So she rushes to her bedroom where she hurriedly dresses, while waking up her husband to tell him that Aisha is missing. [09:39] They both check the cars together, and they start calling family members that she might be with. [09:44] Harold's mother, who lived just across the street; Aisha's aunt, who they'd all eat lunch with the day before; [09:50] all to no avail. Iquilla said after they found out that she wasn't at her grandma's or her aunt's.

[09:55] that. [09:56] That is when she went into panic mode. [09:59] She called her own mother hysterical [10:02] and told her what was happening. And that's when her mother said, hang up the phone and call the police. I found a transcript of the 911 call, which appears to be accurate, but full disclosure, again, this did not come from a news article. This came from the deep, dark web of the internet where I spent hours and hours and hours. So... [10:25] I think I'm going to read Harold, who's the one that actually called 911. And Britt, do you want to read The Dispatcher? Sure thing. [10:33] 911? Yes, I'd like to report a child missing. From where? [10:40] from my house. [10:42] What's your address? Uh, [redacted address]. Is this an apartment? [10:47] Yeah. [10:48] And which apartment? Apartment 3406. [10:51] Thank you. [10:52] Okay, is she missing from 3404 or 3406? [10:57] 3404, Amy. [10:59] There's not an apartment number. It's 34... No. [11:03] No, it's not like an A or B. [11:06] No, huh? [11:08] And what's your name? [11:09] Harold Degree. Your phone number, Harold? The next door neighbor said she went down the road and said that she was just a kid on the road. What's the child's name? [11:19] Aisha Degree [11:21] What's her full name? Asha Dracquilla Degree. [11:25] Can you spell that for me, please? A-S-H-A-J-A-Q-U

[11:31] A-I-L. J-A what? [11:33] J-A-Q-U [11:35] I mean... [11:36] Yeah, J-A-Q-U-A-I-L-L-A. [11:41] Degree? Yeah, yeah. How old is she? Uh, nine. [11:46] Thank you. [11:46] while you're black. [11:47] Black. [11:48] When did you last see her, Harold? [11:50] Last time I went to bed, she was in bed. We got up this morning, called her to get up to school. [11:55] and she wasn't there, and her book bag's missing, and her pocketbook. [11:59] So you don't know if she got dressed or if she still got on her bedclothes or what? We don't know. [12:04] Was the door open or anything? No. Her brother sleeps in there with her, and when he... [12:09] When he was in there, he didn't hear her when she got up. Okay. [12:12] Alright, Harold. I will get an officer to get in touch with you just as soon as possible. [12:17] If you do happen to locate her, please. [12:18] Call us back and let us know, okay? [12:20] Okay. [12:21] Thank you. Bye-bye. [12:22] Police were on scene by 6.40 to search the home and the nearby areas. Police even brought search dogs with them, but the dogs were unable to pick up Aisha's scent. When the police cleared the home and realized that Aisha was nowhere inside, they expanded the search to surrounding neighborhoods and streets. By 7 o'clock, neighbors and friends had awoke and, shocked by the news, offered their services to help search as well. But neighborhood by neighborhood, street by street, they find nothing. [12:52] me. [12:53] Not a single sign of or item belonging to Aisha. [12:57] As this search is going on, police do start processing the degree home like a crime scene, but there doesn't appear to have been a crime committed. No forced entry, no blood, no sign that anyone but the family was inside that home. In fact, not only do they find nothing pointing to an intruder taking Aisha, but they find evidence that perhaps Aisha left on her own accord. Based on that 911 call, police know that her backpack, along with her purse, some clothes, sneakers, were all missing.

[13:27] by herself and [13:29] So did Aisha leave on her own? [13:32] If she did, [13:33] Why? Where was she going? And could she have been trying to meet somebody? [13:40] You guys, we are finally rolling into summer, and I am ditching the sweaters, packing away the coats, but I am still wearing quince. Because quince is quality I wear all year round, in the field, on stage, at the office, quince, quince, quince. Their clothing and accessories are timeless and long-lasting because they focus on high-quality, beautiful everyday essentials, like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. [14:10] 80% less than similar brands. No lie, I have a silk skirt from a big department store and I have a silk skirt from Quince. And dead serious, my Quince one has held up way better and was way cheaper and machine washable because ain't nobody got time or money for dry cleaning, but I want to look like I do. So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to Quince.com slash crimejunkie for free shipping on your order [14:40] Crime Junkie for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Crime Junkie. [14:48] Once police start to explore the idea that Aisha left on her own, they start to think that maybe this was something she had been planning. But Aisha's parents say, "No way, this was so unlike Aisha." You see, she and her brother lived pretty sheltered lives. They didn't have a computer in their home. Outside of school, church, and basketball, they didn't do a whole lot of socializing. And beyond this, Aisha's parents say that she was deathly afraid,

[15:15] of dark, [15:16] She was deathly afraid of storms and of dogs, so she would not have left the home in the middle of the night, in the dark, while, by the way, it was storming. [15:27] Also, they said that Aisha was shy and timid. She was not the kind to run away. And it's really pretty rare that you hear of kids who live in pretty stable homes running away at such a young age. Yeah, she's nine. She's just a little kid. I feel like I've read somewhere that [15:45] Runaway age kind of starts at 12, and 9 is much younger than that. [15:50] Yeah, that actually was something that I came across in this specific case that someone from the FBI was, I believe, like said this, that it was at age 12 that they start really classifying kids as runaways. And usually they're younger than 12. They almost always assume something happened to them. [16:05] like some kind of foul play unless there's like a specific reason, like something crazy was going on in the home. But that doesn't seem like it's the case here. Right. Everything here is pointing to the fact that she left willingly. Also, I should mention that all of the doors were locked. [16:22] in the home when Asha's parents woke up. Now she had a key that she kept in her book bag, so [16:29] She seems to have left on her own, locking the doors behind her. [16:35] What the police and the FBI later say is that it appears that her bag had been packed well in advance, and it seems as if she had prepared

[16:46] to [16:47] make this trip and she got everything ready so that she wouldn't risk waking up her brother that night. [16:53] And there's something else to suggest that she left willingly and on her own. [16:58] Sightings of Aisha start to come up the same night that she went missing. Two motorists say they saw a young black girl matching her description. [17:08] walking along a two-lane highway. This is Highway 18. Sometime between 3.30 and 4 o'clock in the morning, again, the same night she's thought to have left her house. Nothing about this sighting [17:20] makes sense. [17:21] It was a perfect description of her. So the FBI, the police believe it is her. But again, super bad weather. It's storming, raining. [17:30] There's this little girl walking alone on the side of the highway, [17:34] Because it happened, I understand why it stuck out to them. Nothing about this is normal. How far away is the highway from her house? Well, at the time they spotted her, she was just about a mile away from her home, and she was walking along the road in the direction toward town. And this is actually a road she would have been somewhat familiar with and a direction she would have gone before, because this is actually the direction her school bus used to go. The motorists who saw her, did they... [18:03] mention what she was wearing? Was she still in her nightgown? No, she was now in a long-sleeve, [18:08] white shirt and pants. And based on the items missing from her house, police and family were confident that this was her. From what I read, and again, these aren't 100% confirmed accounts, but it seems that there were like two

[18:21] Full outfits. [18:23] that were missing. And one of them was like jeans with a white long sleeve shirt. [18:30] Either the motorist called 911 about the sighting, [18:32] So, no. And obviously this is one of the biggest mistakes in the case. If not the biggest. I mean, we probably wouldn't be here 19 years later. [18:44] If someone would have seen a nine-year-old girl on the side of the highway during a storm, [18:47] and just called the police. Right, like a normal person. Like a normal person. Multiple people see a little girl walking along the highway, but no one reports it. [18:56] Now, one guy did try and help her. He says that he made a U-turn to pull alongside of the road and ask her if she needed help. But he said that as soon as he rolled down his window, she freaked out and ran away from the road into this like tree line just down. [19:14] like just straight across from the road and the man didn't see her again to me this is like even more reason to call the police like yeah a little kid just ran into the woods yeah and it's not like dense woods but you know how there's like tree lines on the side of of like rural roads rural highways we have that all over indiana yeah definitely [19:30] So after this sighting, [19:32] There were no more sightings of Aisha on the road anywhere. [19:36] For two days after this, there was just nothing. [19:40] No sightings, no items found. Searches continued. [19:45] and there were thousands of man-hours poured into this case, [19:49] absolutely nothing surfaced. [19:51] until

[19:52] February 17th. [19:54] Police, in their search, make it to this property off of Highway 18. That's the highway Aisha was seen walking on. And when they start questioning the lady who owns it, asking if she saw anything, [20:06] a light bulb goes off for her. [20:08] She didn't see a girl, but she did find something on her property on the 15th [20:14] Something that didn't mean much at the time because she didn't know Aisha was missing, but something that now she thinks might be significant. [20:22] On the 15th, she went to her shed and found a Mickey Mouse hair bow [20:28] a green marker and a pencil all just inside of the shed like right inside the front door when she takes police back to the shed and gives them permission to search they find even more they find some candy wrappers and they confirm [20:44] that those were the same kind that Aisha had gotten after playing in a basketball game on the Saturday before she went missing. [20:51] She had been there, but why had she gone there [20:55] And where was she now? [20:56] Despite finding this clue, they were days behind her, and they weren't able to track her movements. They were forced to wait for another lead to surface. [21:05] And that next lead [21:07] wouldn't come for 18 months after her disappearance. [21:12] But when that lead comes, [21:14] It leaves [21:15] everyone with more questions than answers. [21:20] You guys, we are finally rolling into summer, and I am ditching the sweaters, packing away the coats, but I am still wearing quince. Because quince is quality I wear all year round, in the field, on stage, at the office, quince, quince, quince. Their clothing and accessories are timeless and long-lasting because they focus on high-quality, beautiful everyday essentials, like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32.

[21:50] 80% less than similar brands. No lie, I have a silk skirt from a big department store and I have a silk skirt from Quince. And dead serious, my Quince one has held up way better and was way cheaper and machine washable because ain't nobody got time or money for dry cleaning, but I want to look like I do. So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to Quince.com slash Crime Junkie for free shipping [22:20] Crime Junkie for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash Crime Junkie. [22:28] In August of 2001, a contractor is cleaning out some land off of Highway 18. [22:34] not the area near the shed where Aisha was last seen, but some 26 miles from her home, and in a different direction than she had been seen walking on the night she disappeared. [22:45] As this man is digging and clearing the land, he comes across a black trash bag. [22:52] A bag that had been buried on his property. He knew he never buried this. [22:57] So who did? [22:59] and what could be inside. [23:01] This man gets off of his excavating equipment and makes his way over to the black trash bag. [23:07] He picks it up [23:09] rustling it in his hands and opens it to find... [23:14] another black trash bag. [23:16] It's strange to say the least. And when he opens that second bag inside, he finds a child's backpack.

[23:25] Not just any child's backpack. Written on the bag, [23:29] was Aisha's name and telephone number. [23:32] Now, obviously all of our crime junkies at the time would have been following the case and freaking out after coming upon this, but this guy hadn't been following the news. [23:42] This guy had no idea a young girl had been missing from this area of town for over 18 months. [23:48] but it was still weird enough and stuck with him enough to mention it to his wife the next morning at breakfast. [23:55] And luckily, his wife had been paying attention. And thank God, because it makes me sick to my stomach to think that he could have just thrown it away. [24:04] or [24:05] like never knew what he was holding on to and how important of a piece of evidence he had in his hand. Yeah, that's insane. Once they realize what they actually have, they contact police who descend on this guy's property to do a thorough search of the land, having no idea... [24:22] if they're going to find more evidence, or maybe Aisha herself. [24:26] After an extensive search, [24:28] All they come up with [24:30] are some animal bones and a pair of men's khaki pants. [24:34] The bag was sent to a federal laboratory for testing, [24:38] But they cited a pending investigation and never released the results. And I haven't been able to find anything on the pants either. I assume. [24:49] They were deemed unrelated, but [24:52] Like, man, I... [24:53] Since I've been working with the police and going through cold case files here in Indiana, those pants are exactly the kind of thing we would get excited about possibly finding some kind of DNA on with all this new technology. Now granted, I have no info on...

[25:09] how close or how far those pants were found from Aisha's bag, and all of that would play into how likely it would be that they're actually connected. [25:17] But... [25:18] The FBI is releasing nothing, nothing from the pants, nothing from the bag. [25:22] They say this is an ongoing investigation, but that makes me think they found something. They're holding on to some piece of evidence. [25:29] as they're like ace in the hole, so when they get somebody, they can prove he's the guy because he knows maybe what's in the bag or the condition of the bag. I don't know. How weird is this whole thing, though? [25:41] Clearly a nine-year-old isn't going to put her book bag in two trash bags and then bury it, right? [25:49] I mean, I can't even see how she'd want to get rid of it, because it's... [25:52] the only thing that she had with her, and it has all of her possessions. But if somehow she did... [25:59] get rid of her backpack. No way is she doing it like this. [26:03] So we have to assume [26:05] someone else. [26:06] buried it, right? Yeah, I think so, because you're right. If she wanted to get rid of her backpack, why on earth is she doing it like this? And it seems like whoever buried it there... [26:18] was almost trying to preserve it. [26:21] Like, if you were just wanting to get rid of it because it was, like, evidence or it linked back to you, you just wanted it gone. Why double bag it before you bury it, right? To me, that's, like, I'm trying to preserve this, so... [26:33] What, you can go back and get it later? Nothing makes sense. Yeah, it's really strange. Or did they somehow know that the area was about to be excavated and they wanted it to be found?

[26:45] But even in that case, to me, if you buried it recently, you knew it was going to get found, [26:50] why double bag it unless you wanted something preserved? There's something inside of there that you were, like, taunting police and wanted them to find? And I would also want to know, and again, something they never released, is, like, how... [27:03] Fresh was the area where it was buried. Did it look like it had been there for 18 months? [27:07] Did it look like it had been placed there a few weeks ago? [27:11] All of this. [27:12] is unanswered. All of these questions I have. But I think we definitely have a perpetrator. And this is something I think most people who look at this case can agree on, including Aisha's family. They say that yes, even though it doesn't make sense, it wasn't her personality, she probably left the house of her own free will. That's what all the evidence points to. [27:32] But somewhere along the way, she had to have met with foul play. [27:37] Investigators officially announce that they consider Aisha's disappearance to be a criminal matter [27:42] and foul play is suspected after that book bag is discovered. [27:47] Do you know, did they ever consider the parents as people of interest or potential suspects? Or was it pretty clear all along that they had nothing to do with it? So they actually did for a hot minute. Iquilla said that they were looking at the family hard in those first few hours after she was missing. But they started to realize that something bigger was going on when they got those sightings of Aisha the day that she went missing.

[28:17] just a month after Aisha went missing, when all of the leads were drying up, they gave both of them polygraphs. And I assume they did okay because neither Harold or Iquilla were ever named as suspects or persons of interest. And I think now, again, 19 years later, I have no idea what happened in the early days, but after these sightings, after we find that backpack, I don't think law enforcement have any lingering suspicions about the family, or if they do, they've never said it publicly. [28:44] Okay. [28:46] Now that backpack would be the last piece of physical evidence ever found in this case. And I'm not sure the last time the backpack or the trash bags were forensically tested, but I would hope... [28:58] that the family is pushing the FBI to have that stuff retested, because it seems like the only hope for answers at this point. [29:07] Does that mean there has been nothing since 2001? Not exactly. That was the last piece of physical work [29:15] evidence. Okay. So in 2014, [29:19] The case kind of gets stirred up again, because a man named Donald Ferguson [29:25] gets arrested and he is all over the news and starts getting linked to Asha's case. And I need to tell you a little bit about why Donald is in the news. In 1990, a seven-year-old girl named Shalonda Poole went missing, and she was found just one day after her disappearance, [29:44] Behind in elementary school, she had been sexually assaulted, stabbed, and strangled.

[29:51] Her case had actually gone unsolved for many, many years, until there was a DNA hit in her case in 2014. [30:01] and this DNA hit came back to Donald Ferguson. [30:05] A man who had known the pools [30:08] a man who had helped the family search for Shalanda when she had gone missing. As he was [30:13] arrested and tried and investigated, it came to light that he had actually been in North Carolina [30:20] at the time of Aisha's disappearance, and a lot of people wonder if he could have been involved. The cases are a little different, [30:28] because, okay, there's two years differing in age, but I think it's still, to me, seven and nine are almost like the same age. [30:34] They're definitely in the same bracket, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [30:38] Also, he knew Shalanda, so he could have been grooming her, whereas Aisha would have been [30:44] a total stranger, [30:46] But it's not completely out of the question that [30:49] Perhaps he [30:50] was just driving, late at night, [30:53] saw her walking, his perfect victim, just there for the taking. A crime of opportunity. Yeah. But again, why was she out there in the first place? It's absolutely killing me. And I've thought about it every which way, [31:09] and nothing makes sense to me. [31:11] Again, the investigators said whatever they found made them think that she'd planned this trip for days before she had left. [31:17] But they couldn't find any reason, no abuse in the home, no real reason whatsoever. Some people say that

[31:24] she was sad about her team losing a basketball game the saturday before she disappeared like she was [31:30] apparently the star of the team, and that game she had to sit out, and so she felt really bad. [31:36] I don't know that you pack your bag and plan to leave home because your team lost their first game. [31:41] Some people say she was inspired by this book she was reading about a runaway who had all these adventures. [31:47] But... [31:47] Again, none of this really plays into what we know about her and her personality. [31:51] Yeah, I was going to say... [31:54] Ash, you and I have very different personalities, and... [31:57] Even as a kid, you were totally the type to get mad and run away, right? Well, so here's the thing. I think I was the type to like get mad and threaten to run away, but I would ever, I never actually went through with it. I never packed a bag. [32:10] Like, I'm also a realist. You had that in you to, like, threaten it. Oh, here's the thing. Yeah. I would have never threatened to do that. Yeah, and I think the difference is I... [32:20] If I ever felt like I had to, and I think that's the real thing, is like at the end of the day I was mad at my parents, but like nothing ever made me really want to go. But I had full confidence in myself that if I had to leave, like I would survive on the land by myself just fine. Whereas I would be like, I'm going to die, so I'm just going to stay here. [32:36] I guess. So that's fine. And I feel like she's maybe a little bit more of my personality than yours. Well, and that's what they kept saying. Sounds like she never even threatened to run away. Yeah, that's what they kept saying over and over. Like, she wasn't dramatic. She never once... [32:49] talked about running away. So it's crazy that this like one basketball game or she reads this one book and then she's like, yeah, I'm gonna leave at three o'clock in the morning when it's storming

[33:00] And that walk across the highway... [33:02] To go where? [33:04] None of this makes sense. [33:07] Is there any possibility that [33:09] Someone maybe could have lured her out or she was going to meet someone somewhere. [33:15] But who? Like, I have to believe 19 years later, they looked into everyone in her life. They haven't found any suspects. So if it's a case like Shalonda, where someone was grooming her... [33:26] who was this person? Have they stayed totally under the radar? Like, [33:31] You know, in 2019, I'd love to be like, oh, she probably met this person online. But they didn't even have a computer. [33:36] Exactly! And also, like in 2000, how many nine-year-olds were in chat rooms? [33:42] Like the 2000s internet is not the 2019 internet. You know what I mean? No, totally. There's, well, I was going to say, when you were talking about the news articles, news... [33:50] agencies, local news agencies, weren't even putting articles online in like 2000, 2001. Very, very rarely do they even have websites. I mean, this is the baby internet. [34:01] Yeah, so she would have had to have, like, [34:04] met somebody online at a computer that was maybe at her school, which... [34:08] What they probably had wasn't even the internet. They probably just had like computer games. [34:12] I mean, I would just find it really, really, really hard to believe that she was being groomed by some stranger. [34:19] So the most likely, if she was going to meet somebody, it's somebody that she knew in her daily life. In their circle, yeah. Who's just, like, gone totally under the radar. [34:30] But we don't know.

[34:30] So in 2015, the FBI announced that they are reinvestigating the case. [34:38] And they, along with the community, come up with $45,000 as a reward for anyone with information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person involved. [34:49] It takes a year [34:51] And it's still super unclear exactly what the tip was that came in. [34:57] But, [34:58] But in May 2016, a new tip does come in. [35:05] I mean, somehow they decide that this lead is super credible. And they make an announcement to the public that the night Aisha went missing, she was seen getting into a dark green room. [35:18] either early '70s Lincoln Continental Mark IV, [35:22] or possibly a dark green early 70s Ford Thunderbird. And she was seen getting into this car along Route 18 or Highway 18, near where she was last seen by those two motorists. [35:36] Though the car was described as having rust around the wheels, [35:40] But they're both... [35:42] pretty distinctive cars. So Britt, you have pictures of these cars. So the first one is the Lincoln. [35:49] Second one is the Ford Thunderbird. [35:51] And remember, this isn't like a case that happened in the 70s or 80s. This is like 2000. [35:56] These are very distinctive cars in 2000 because they're classics. Yeah, they are absolute boats. I used to drive a Lincoln and I kind of miss it.

[36:06] They're actually really both. [36:09] Cool cars. Really cool. Yeah. Again, they're classic cars. So I understand why this would have stuck out. [36:16] Shocking, though. [36:17] that we don't know [36:20] Like, who owned them? Anything else. Right? You would think, like, tracing down who owned these kind of cars in 2000 might have been a little simpler. Yeah, I mean, access to, like, [36:29] registration, stuff like that. I mean, there can't be that many of these cars left in 2000. I would think, and you know, of course, whoever put in this tip didn't get any kind of license plate. Were they out of state? [36:41] But God, and... [36:43] I mean, I almost wonder why you, I mean, maybe she was going the wrong direction to see a license plate. But again, even a little girl walking on the side of the road, getting into a car. [36:51] Also red flags. Yeah. Red flags. Someone call 911 for the love of God. OK, so besides the red flags, why now? Why in 2016 does this person come forward with this information when... [37:05] they saw it happen the night she went missing. [37:08] That is something that... [37:11] I've seen everybody go into rabbit holes on because [37:15] It is super strange. I don't, [37:17] To me, I don't know if it's just because maybe they heard a podcast or saw a YouTube video, you know, they saw this case and they're like, oh, I remember that because it was super... [37:27] To me, if it didn't stand out to you enough to remember it and report it at the time, it's shocking that you would... [37:34] like recall it. We put two and two together now. Yeah, and recall it well enough, but

[37:39] I have to believe like whoever put in this tip [37:42] knew something very specific that only a person who actually saw that would know because otherwise... [37:50] I don't know why the police would take it, or the FBI would take it so seriously. You know what I mean? [37:55] Maybe they knew she was wearing something or saw something specific... [37:59] I don't know. What could they have said before? [38:01] that was so believable that we have this tip now, like, like, [38:05] I can't even think of something that would be like, yes, I believe you now because you said this one thing. Right. And something that I wonder, too, is this kind of calls into question... [38:15] the whole timeline we thought we knew because [38:19] We, they say, I mean, every report, they say she went to that shed. So did she run away, go to that shed, come back and get in this green car? Did she actually never make it to the shed at all? And all of that's, again, it keeps coming up in the reports after they know about this green car. So... [38:36] I feel like she had to have made it to the shed at some point. And there's no real details about, like, what time they saw her get into the car. Maybe it was daylight... [38:44] which would make more sense how they know it's a dark green car. So it was later that morning. [38:48] I mean, again, I have a thousand questions about why this tip was validated, but [38:54] there's something, there's something they're not telling us for them to put this out as like fact in the case. And unfortunately, [39:02] Because this person waited so long, [39:05] It's going to be way harder to track down. That car likely has changed hands so many times between 2000 and 2016. Now 2019, 2020,

[39:15] Like, who knows who owned it? This is a shot in the dark. [39:18] But... [39:19] Any chance Donald Ferguson ever owned a green car like this? [39:23] Girl, I... [39:24] was [39:25] searching, but I wasn't able to find out anything. I am still dying to know. I'm dying to know about anyone in North Carolina or the surrounding states who owned either of those in 2000. I feel like they're pretty distinctive cars. [39:40] And you know one thing that sticks out to me too, if she got in [39:44] Why? [39:46] I almost think she, this goes back to maybe her being lured out there, I almost feel like she would have to know the person, because if you remember that other motorist, [39:54] who tried to stop to help her. She ran away from. Yeah, she freaked out and ran away from him. [39:59] And again, I... [40:01] What about this person who rolled up? Did they just look familiar with... [40:06] I, again, I don't know. I could theorize for days. [40:12] But the truth is, we have no answers. In 2017, the FBI assembled their card team. And I don't know if you remember that from our Monster in Fort Wayne episode on April Tinsley. Yeah, they're like the specialized team that go out on like... [40:28] abductions and really likely to be solved cases, right? For specifically for children. And by the way, total side note, but I have gotten all of your messages, listeners. We are working on a follow-up episode about April Tinsley and her killer being arrested and sentenced. Please be patient. It's taking some time. We thought there would be a trial that we were going to cover. He pled guilty.

[40:52] We're working on it. We hear you. It's going to happen. But anyways, so they assemble this car team in Asha's case. And according to Wikipedia, so take this as what you will, they've done over 300 interviews since they started in late 2017. But the interviews and reinvestigations haven't led to any new developments in the case. And law enforcement and the family are waiting for that one person to... [41:18] with the right piece of information, that person who knows somebody in 2000 who was driving that kind of green car, that person who maybe heard a story from a friend about picking up a young girl on the road that night, that person with the one piece of information. [41:36] that could break this case wide open. [41:39] If you have any information on Asha Degree's case, you can submit a tip through the FBI Charlotte office at [redacted phone]. [42:09] You can go to our website and go to our episodes blog for this specific episode at CrimeJunkiePodcast.com. And Britt, if people want to check us out on social, you can follow us on Twitter at CrimeJunkiePod and on Instagram at CrimeJunkiePodcast. And we will be back next week with a brand new episode.

[42:40] This episode of Crime Junkie was researched, written, and hosted by me with co-hosting by Britt Prewatt. All of our editing and sound production was done by David Flowers. And all of our music, including our theme, comes from Justin Daniel. Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [43:04] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that? [43:23] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [43:26] I think you'll love it too. [43:28] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.