An Epic Spurs-Thunder Series, Cleveland Survives, and the Knicks' Moment Is HERE With Zach Lowe

[00:00] This episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. [00:13] Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. [00:17] Backyard tradition now available behind the counter. [00:20] Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. [00:29] . [00:34] all right bill simmons podcast live on netflix [01:04] here we thought we'd be starting... [01:06] after. [01:07] the Cavaliers Pistons game. But the Pistons had other ideas and so did the Cavaliers. I wanted to mention [01:13] New rewatchables coming on Monday. We did Borat. [01:16] It was me and Kyle Brand. It's turned into Politically Incorrect Comedy Month on the rewatchable. So we have that. Zach Lowe is going to be Tuesday morning, Thursday morning as we head into... [01:27] And absolutely awesome. [01:29] round three. I'm very excited. The Knicks might make the finals. Don't jinx it. Don't jinx my hometown. Spurs and Thunder. We're going to talk about where this matchup ranks for us, but we'll start with Cavs-Pistons. So,

[01:45] Wrote down, great win for Cleveland and Donovan Mitchell fans and supporters. [01:50] Decent win for James Harden truthers. [01:54] Great win for the Knicks because they now have home court in the Eastern Conference Finals. They have 1-2-5-7. [02:01] Um, [02:02] Where do you want to start with those? [02:04] What truth do the James Harden truthers subscribe to? [02:08] That he's one of the 40 best players of all time. [02:12] that he's actually come up big in some playoff games. They just all happened to be in series that his team eventually lost. [02:18] Bad luck against the Warriors a couple times. [02:22] for conference finals. I don't know. What else would they say? [02:26] I think we should start with Donovan Mitchell and getting over the hump into the conference finals. I mean, he had the stats are not. [02:33] overwhelming, but I thought he played awesome. And the seven assists is to me, the defining stat of the game for him. I just thought he like slowed down, [02:41] played with a better pace, kept his dribble alive a little bit longer on the pick and roll, like looking actively for the big guys instead of like that, that, that overhead carry he does. It used to be like a once a game kind of thing. And it became like five times a game as he was searching for his own points and playing a little frazzled. And I thought he was just under control, got the big guys involved. Game seven, Jared Allen showed up as a result. Evan Mobley played, I think, his fourth really nice game in a row. [03:11] Cleveland Knicks which is like the road not taken for Donovan Mitchell the road not taken for the Knicks after acquiring Jalen Brunson and flirting with pairing him with Donovan Mitchell who allegedly always dreamed of playing for the Knicks he's from here his family is still all in the Northeast his dad works for the Mets on and on so we get like that road not taken J.B. Bickerstaff doesn't get to avenge his firing from Cleveland and uh and you know I like the

[03:36] The Cavs paid a high price for Donovan Mitchell. Like, Lowry Markkinen, the gap between Mitchell and Lowry Markkinen and whatever your player rankings are shrunk dramatically since that trade and the three picks and the two swaps. And I think now you have to look at it as – [03:51] You paid full freight, but here you are in the conference finals with a Knicks team that I think is going to be the favorite. I will pick them to win the series, but they're not unbeatable. But Cleveland has a chance in the series to get to the finals. [04:05] Yeah, I had Mitchell as the top story too. Nine years, 77th playoff game tonight. [04:10] Never made conference finals, which becomes a weird list. [04:14] When you've had a really good career and you've made some all-MBAs, but you've never made it past round two. I don't know who the most famous player on that list is, but I always think of Dominique Wilkins when I think of lists like that. [04:25] and all the what-ifs with his career and how, like, if the Lakers had just taken him over James Worthy and if he had been able to get by the Celtics once or the Pistons. [04:33] anybody and had this awesome career, but never even got to be in the final four. Felt like we were heading that way with Mitchell. [04:39] Friday night, [04:41] I just was stupified by Friday night. I thought for sure the Cavs were going to win. [04:45] I don't know what happened to them. They looked lethargic. The Pistons, they had so many turnovers. [04:50] in the Friday night game. And then today, we were texting near the end of the first half that Cavs had two turnovers with like... [04:58] Four minutes left in the second quarter. Honestly, that felt like part of the difference because Detroit's – [05:03] Detroit's offense was so iffy. [05:05] They really needed that energy stuff and they needed like the two on ones and the, and the blocks and going the other way. And they just,

[05:12] Just didn't... [05:13] Didn't get any of those today. And it's just a lethargic game all the way around. Cade wasn't good. Mitchell was the best guy on the floor. The point you made about getting the big guys above, [05:23] I almost wonder... [05:25] Did they look at the tapes of the first six games and notice that every time they drove to the basket, [05:30] the Pistons, Bigs, and Thompson were just flying at those guys trying to block the shots. And like they told Mitchell, when you go to the basket, [05:38] Look for Allen, look for Mobley, because those guys over and over again were rolling, and it seemed like they were – [05:43] unimpeded. So it almost felt like a football strategy flip. [05:47] I'm like, they keep doing this, zag this way. [05:50] And Mitchell bought in because the thing with Mitchell, there was a storyline that he was averaging, what 2.9 assists in the playoffs. [05:57] That's terrible. [05:58] He's supposed to be the guy who makes everybody else better, and he wasn't, but he did tonight. I think if they lost this game and he had another game like that, the number one takeaway – I mean, all the big takeaways would have been the big-picture Cavs stuff that we don't have to discuss now. Like, what are they going to do? Is this the team of the future? Who do they trade? Kenny Atkinson. All that stuff is stable. But the biggest basketball takeaway would have been – [06:19] What happened to Donovan Mitchell's playmaking? Like, I thought this was going to develop into a real strength of his game. And it kind of had just disappeared in the playoffs. He was not making passes that were there to be made. He was not looking for them. He was just playing. I keep using the word frazzled. He looked a little sped up and just not. [06:36] in his normal state of mind. And tonight he, he was really, really under control and really good. And, uh, a little black hole ish before tonight. I felt like, like not that fun to play with would have been my take. And, and out of sync sometimes with Harden. I mean, gradually starting in game three,

[06:54] and excluding the just inexplicable egg they laid in game six, three, four, five, seven. You started to see the Cavs figure out some ways to, it wasn't pretty. It's not always artful, but to loosen up their half court offense a little bit, it was sometimes hunting mismatches for Jonathan Mitchell. It was using Mobley more in the pick and roll. And they started to get like the Mobley to Allen big to big passing going on. It was finally, I thought probably a little overdue [07:24] the floor and Merrill like probably should have liked the thing with Sam Merrill who came in and completely changed the game. I've been calling for it all series. I don't know why they weren't playing him more. Do you think he was, was he hurt? Like, he seemed like such an obvious person to play more. He did miss the game. I thought the Struis adjustment was going to come sooner. And in Kenny's defense, the initial starting lineup with Wade had like a better plus minus than I had thought of in the playoffs. But it's just, the offense was so clunky. Wade was not [07:54] rotation a bit. But this is what happens in the playoffs, man. You shrink your rotation. You got to stretch for answers. This is, you know, the Cavs for as ugly as it's looked at times, seven games and seven games and they're here and they had to negotiate two of the five best defenses in the NBA this year. It's like not always going to look pretty, but they found just enough to squeak those series out. [08:13] Yeah, so the big adjustment was starting Macho Man, Maxi Struis. I saw you. I saw that. That was fun. Macho. Yeah. Hopefully that'll keep going in the... [08:23] In the Knicks series. Other than that, it just looked like they took care of the ball and Mitchell played better. Those were really...

[08:30] That was really, because Friday night was... [08:33] I was really surprised and stunned, but Detroit did seem like they got the Reed-Durren combo going. [08:40] And then today it was gone again. And we'll talk about Detroit later and what Dernsworth and all that stuff. But for... [08:46] Ugly loss for Detroit. What a wild, like, just a reminder that it's a little, as predictable as the NBA is compared to other sports leagues in terms of who generally wins and advances game to game, [08:59] It's like, wait, Cleveland won three games in a row and just got obliterated in game six in the most dispiriting way possible at home. Detroit's riding high. They're going back home. You know, they're like game seven and they get obliterated at home. It's like it can swing in wild ways, even if it doesn't seem that way sometimes. [09:15] Yeah, it's turnovers and threes, basically, seem to be when you have two teams that, [09:20] I think a notch below the highest level that we have going in the league right now. [09:25] Who the hell knows? Um, [09:26] For Detroit, how bad was that loss for you? [09:29] If I gave you a scale of [09:32] one to the 2022 Mavs Suns game. How bad? That's a 10. That's 10. I'll go six and a half. I mean, I think we saw in the first round that this team was, its regular season win total probably inflated a little bit how good they really were. And all the sort of concerns we had about their viability as like a real finals championship team came to bear in the series against Orlando, which by the way, [10:00] I think Orlando probably wins if Franz Wagner doesn't get hurt. And also they blew a horrendous game six of their own at home. So I think we win because we did that podcast with the,

[10:11] the scariest ceiling playoff teams when we had Detroit 11th and their fans and media got mad at us. Well, I mean, and just I'm going six and a half, maybe seven, because it's a young team. It's a rising team in a lot of ways. Like, again, this is a team that had it over under, I think, in the high 40s before the season started. And here they are going toe to toe with Donovan Mitchell and James Harden and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen in the second round. It's great season. But Jalen Dern, another invisible game. [10:38] Tobias Harris over from the field. He's a free agent. You've really got, you've really got a tough question, tough, tough discussion to have with him. And just, [10:48] The center rotation completely fell apart again. After Jalen Dern looked reinvigorated, we were texting over the weekend, like, the biggest... [10:57] The biggest possible positive sign for Detroit going into game seven is maybe Jalen Duren got over whatever mental hurdle or whatever was happening to him. He had a pretty good game. He did not. His missing layups and everything around the basket. And then Isaiah Stewart, for what felt like the fourth time in the series, is just throwing guys, like judo throwing guys at the foul line and picking up these crazy fouls. And J.B. Bickerstaff's like, dude, cool. You're the tough guy on the team. Can you play basketball? Because if you're not going to play basketball, we're bringing in Paul Reed. [11:26] Six minutes for Isaiah Stewart tonight. So I would go higher than six and a half for the Pistons for three reasons. [11:32] One, you have this impossible to figure out during contracting though. [11:37] I don't know. He just got outplayed by Jared Allen, who makes $28 million, $29 million a year, right?

[11:45] So you can't pay more than that, even though I voted for an NBA team. [11:50] I don't know... [11:52] And we've seen... [11:53] This in... [11:55] in football, [11:56] And we've seen it in basketball, where if you overpay somebody who's not a dominant guy, [12:01] That's the quickest way to screw your team up for three, four years. It's AKA the Bradley Beal Parallax, a pair of... [12:09] Paradox? Paradox. Paradox. Dilemma. Whatever. Why can I speak? [12:13] Bradley Bill Paradox? [12:16] I just couldn't in good conscience pay that guy more than – [12:23] 33 to 34 a year? Oh, I think after this series, if you're Jalen Dern's agent, you might pretend to protest what you just said. Like, oh, that might place a phone call to Bill Simmons being like, oh, I got to do the thing where I protest. But secretly, you're like, I would take that. Like, that's like we're I was so Dyson Daniels, 25 a year. [12:43] Jalen Johnson signed for, I think we all felt like it was a little low. [12:48] I think five for 150. [12:51] So he's somewhere in there, but [12:53] I wouldn't feel good about going over 30 for him after that series. I don't feel good about paying that for centers in general, because I think the perimeter guys are more important unless it's Yoko Trewembe. I will say, I thought his defense was pretty solid throughout the series. Offensively, he was exposed as kind of not ready for the, for the playoffs at the level that the Pistons need him to be ready, which is a really high level second round against a really good team. Like it's got, it's high level stuff. And I, you know,

[13:18] The perimeter game, every time he takes a mid-range jumper, it's a win for the other team. And I think he'll get better at that. He's only 22. You can't repeat that enough. But I don't know what the market... [13:30] I mean, the Bulls are the team with cap space that has the obvious hole at the position. But I just don't know that anyone is blowing Jalen Dern's market away with any kind of offer sheet. Now, agents, as we saw with Miles Turner, are super creative of like magicing up sign and trades and crazy deals. But, you know, I. [13:48] The center horse Lakers, Lakers ish. I mean, we'll see if they have any cap space. They have this 50 million dollar possible cap space and it depends on a lot of different things. LeBron, Rui Hachimura, how quickly they send Reeves and all that. But he would be, I mean, at the very, very high end of what the Lakers could could go after. Really tough. [14:07] So that was my first thing. I have two more things. [14:10] for being bummed out of on the Pistons. The second is what happened to Isaiah Stewart. [14:16] where I think he became a liability as the playoffs went wrong. He was one of my favorite bench guys in the league this season. And I don't know if since the fight, [14:25] It never felt like he got [14:27] his impact back the way it was before the fight. [14:30] where it felt like he was coming in and just swinging in games and adding on to Dern. And I just thought he got worse in the playoffs to the point, seemed like he came at it, seemed like he was yelling at a couple of coaches and they cut away from it. [14:42] But, [14:43] Thank you. [14:43] I think he's an obvious trade piece for them. [14:46] making 15 million a year. There's great rim protection things for him. Maybe he needs to play more. But just in general, I thought that was a guy that seemed like he was one of the better contracts in the league and just was MIA. So that's two. And then the third one is just that they punted on the trade deadline, which we talked about at the time. Their big move is Kevin Herter, who didn't play tonight, who didn't really play all series.

[15:06] And I don't add an injury in fairness, but yeah, there was no universe in which Kevin Herter was going to suddenly be playing 22 minutes a game off the bench in this series. Did he even he wasn't he didn't play one minute this series. He got in at some point. Yeah. Well, whatever. So. [15:21] They kind of punted on that and we talked about it and we said, hey, they, you know, [15:26] It's a marathon, not a sprint. They're using the same Presti logic of let's try to build and we'll pounce when we pounce. [15:33] I don't know. If you have a chance to get in the Final Four, that means you're four wins away from the finals. I certainly think they've had a lot of success against the Knicks, and they really needed that second score, which is what we said in February. [15:45] You're putting all your bricks in the, you're putting all your eggs in the Tobias Harris basket. [15:51] And he was 0 for 6 today. And they did not have that other scorer they could trust. Levert had the one hot game in the series. [15:57] You know, they'd have Jenkins would hit a three every once in a while. Robinson, who did not seem healthy to me. I know he made a couple of threes, but I felt like he had some back thing. I was watching how he's walking. He looked 100% to me. [16:09] But they were just missing that second, whoever it was. [16:11] And I don't know if I was a Pistons fan, I'd be mad about that. Yeah. I mean, you know, I was talking about this with some people at the combine and, and, [16:18] you hear this like, well, I mean, ironically they got, they get to swap picks with the Timberwolves in the first round of this draft because they took on Mike Conley and the initial salary dump or said they were involved in that. Um, [16:31] And it's ironic, I say, because you hear a lot of people say, well, I mean, like they could have gotten in for Kobe White or I assume new or a guy like that. I mean, they could have. Is that getting them over the hump? Is it worth it? But it's definitely would have given them a better shot.

[16:45] in this series, because we all knew they were light on secondary... [16:49] creators. And I think, honestly, like, [16:52] I think Cade had to have been exhausted by the end of this series because he just has to do everything. And the Cavs... [17:00] I think probably switched too easily against Cade. Like they gave him Harden, they gave him Donovan Mitchell, they gave him Merrill, they gave him whatever matchup he wanted. They'd never really trapped him when he got those matchups. And a lot of people were calling for that. And I understand that. And I think they could have done a little bit. [17:18] I bet what they were thinking was, [17:20] Look, we're just going to make him dribble eight times and take a 14-footer. And, yeah, it's going to be over Donovan Mitchell or Sam Merrill, but we're not giving him the easy stuff and the easy passes. We're just going to wear his ass out. And, like, what he was doing – [17:33] No one in the league is carrying a bigger load, I don't think, than Cade Cunningham in the playoffs. [17:39] Two MVP votes from people today for him. First place MVP votes. First place MVP votes. Yeah. [17:45] So I have a lot of Knicks fans in my life. I know you have even more. [17:48] And they've been asking me for two weeks. [17:51] Who do I want to play? Do I want to play the Cavs or the Pistons? And [17:55] My answer, at least for the last week, is you're going to beat either team. It doesn't matter. [17:59] But, [18:00] I'd rather play the Pistons. [18:02] because... [18:03] The Cavs still have this ceiling thing that they... [18:07] the potential of what they are is still more dangerous than what the Pistons are to me, which is a team that just has too much trouble scoring. And the Thompson piece of it, Thompson, who...

[18:17] steals and blocks, some offensive rebounds, three incredible defensive plays a game. Clearly somebody who [18:26] can be one of your best five guys on the floor and be really impactful. But if you don't have enough scoring, and especially this was a Pistons team, if they fell behind 15, it felt like 50. And I just feel like if I'm the Knicks, I would have much rather played that team because I'm better than them anyway. I could just outscore them. Cleveland, who knows, with the two bigs. [18:46] You mentioned Mobley earlier. [18:49] The last three of the last four games, I thought he was really, really, really good. Like as... [18:57] Much as I've enjoyed watching him play, just total package, like defending the rim, some good passing, was aggressive, wasn't afraid to shoot his three. Did you feel like he went up a tiny notch or am I crazy? No, I mean, look, the scoring numbers are, I don't think he cracked 20 unless he did tonight. I haven't checked the final box score in any of those games. I just thought he played really solid all-around basketball. And I think the series started to turn when the Cavs had him more involved in the pick and roll and used him as a passer more and used him as a hub more. [19:27] I think that's not going to be... [19:29] Sexy statistically, but I thought he made all the right plays. And it got him just – it got the ball moving a little bit for a team that was – like 29 assists tonight. They've been dead last in assist rate in the playoffs for most of the playoffs. It just got the ball moving a little bit more, and it invigorated him. Like there was a moment, I think it was in game four, where he dunked on Isaiah Stewart. Like dunked on him hard. And I'm like, where is this –

[19:54] every other game like why is this a rare thing like this level of nastiness and aggression and he played that way the rest of the series i kind of agree with you the pistons swept the knicks in the regular season they blew them out if not all three times and at least two out of the three there are guys missing on both sides in in most of the games but they their physicality bothered the knicks they just beat the crap out of the knicks the knicks were not ready for how physical detroit played obviously in the playoffs your state of readiness and your willingness to engage [20:24] for players the cats have a little bit of that in them where they for a quarter will find this groove where the hard and mitchell thing is more complimentary than it is like they they amplify each other a little bit more than they do usually the bigs are rolling streus or merrill are making shots you're like oh my god this team is awesome in the rim yeah and then the next two quarters it'll just be a little bit like sluggish and so they do have that kind of like oh if that team [20:54] Have a chance. [20:55] They've also really... I think Sam Merrill has really... [21:00] emerged as a possible like [21:02] MSG playoff zone. [21:03] I can see him going in and being unafraid and hitting shots. Schroeder, who... [21:09] It was plus 12 today. Was it at least two turnovers? [21:13] Schroeder was a turnover machine the last couple of games. The last couple of games it was rough. To the point that he almost seemed like unplayable in game six. Like I was surprised they kept him out there, but. [21:23] you know, [21:24] With Macho Man, Maxie Struess, Harden Mobley, Alan Mitchell...

[21:28] And Meryl, I at least know I have six guys. And then Wade's like a six and a half. At least he has some size... [21:35] it's they'll be able to land some punches on the next. But if I'm the next, this is I mean, this is easily. [21:42] easily their best chance to make the final since [redacted address] better than they were way better than neither is teams what do you think the line is for the series [21:51] I'm going to Fando right now. [21:53] Before I look, I'm going to say Knicks minus 300. [21:58] I was going to say 250 or 230 or something like that. [22:01] Okay. [22:02] The answer is... [22:07] Minus 240. Okay. [22:09] Plus 190 for the Cavs. You win that one. I win. That's why you're Mr. Gambling. And I win. [22:16] Me and House had nine different bets going on this game tonight. That's what I do. [22:21] And I won by Price is Right rules, which I respect in my house. Yeah, you do. But my wife does not respect Price is Right rules. She says that's stupid. It should just be who's ever closest. I respect the institution that is the Price is Right. [22:32] I like Price's Rights rules as well. Brunson minus 170 for conference MVP. Mitchell's 3-1. Towns plus 950. [22:41] Hard and 20 to 1. [22:43] OG's 22 to 1 and then [22:45] Evan Mobley sitting there 33 to one. [22:48] Right. Not against it. Got to get my app up. Not against that one, because in my opinion, mobile will be the... [22:57] That's the Cavs guy to watch in a series like this. If he's awesome, that's...

[23:03] a differentiator for them. I'm going to dig in a little bit tomorrow. Obviously it's a quick turnaround. Game one is Tuesday in New York. I will hopefully be there. [23:12] And, but I, I'll dig in on the matchups a little bit, but the Knicks, I'm, [23:18] But OGN and OB practiced and said he's feeling much better, and this is not like the hamstring injury from two years ago. That's a huge thing. I just think they're better. I think they're a better team. I think they were 2-1 or 3-1 against the Cavs this year. Now, I will say the last time they played, I've said this over and over again, I think the Cavs figured out a little bit something on who should match up with who and how all that should work defensively and gave the Knicks a little bit of trouble. [23:42] And I think they've discovered a little bit of that kind of stuff. But the Knicks are just better. And to your point, I'm surrounded by Knicks fans. [23:51] They are absolutely giddy. [23:54] And I'm like, you should be giddy. This is by far the best chance. I like I'm. [23:59] I had never thought I would ever have a hometown finals as long as I would be doing this. The finals where I didn't have to travel for half of it. I just never even deemed it possible. I just never, which of these teams is going to suddenly be competent enough to actually win three playoff rounds. This is by far the most likely it's ever been to the point that if the Knicks don't win this next series, [24:19] I think it's going to be absolutely crushing for their fan base and – [24:23] that they're a whole organization. [24:27] I don't know how crushing it will be because they had the will to live for the rest of their lives crushed out of them by the Halliburton shot, and that Pacers come back. So they're already dead inside. I can't believe you. You have to mention that? They're dead inside. They have no emotion left. How about the Paul Reed shot, by the way? Can we just – from –

[24:46] from game six that hung on there. It was like a golf shot that just hung on the lip for five seconds. It was like a Tiger Woods where he's doing the fist bump after. We're going to take a break. A couple more storylines for that Cavs-Knicks series in one second. [25:01] The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The conference finals finally is here. We are down to four teams. I think you know it'll go down. Take a shot with FanDuel. [25:11] Get closer to the action. And as you know, I've been telling you for years, Fandle, the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build the same game parlay. [25:21] for a shot at a better payout, or try live betting and jump into the action after tip-off, or just follow me and my picks, because every once in a while, I'll put them on social. Download the FanDuo Sportsbook app. [25:32] Right now. [25:34] and play your game. [25:35] 21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call [redacted phone] or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. [25:46] This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. [25:48] For small businesses, guess what? Every hire matters. Luckily, there's LinkedIn Hiring Pro. Great name. [25:55] It's designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates who [25:59] And guess what? [26:00] Hiring pro. [26:02] streamlines the entire process from drafting jobs to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI-powered screening interviews. [26:09] And its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language. [26:14] language. [26:15] Hire right the first time. Why not just do it the first time? Get started by posting your first job for free at linkedin.com.

[26:22] slash Simmons. That's me. [26:24] That's linkedin.com slash Simmons. Terms and conditions apply. [26:30] So one thing I was thinking about with the Knicks and the Cavs, and it's off of Minnesota falling short. [26:38] in their series about these little windows that teams have [26:42] The can't get over the hump teams. [26:45] The teams that [26:46] They win a few playoff series. They might even make a conference finals. They have like a three or four year window. [26:53] and they just can't make the finals, right? And I think the most, my favorite example of this team ever was the Mark Price Cavaliers team. [27:01] that with Doherty and Nance and all those dudes, I thought those were really, really good teams. It's really unfair that they never made a finals. They had some bad injury luck. [27:10] you know, they obviously cross paths with Michael Jordan at the worst possible times. And the, [27:14] Pistons and then Price got hurt. But I just thought that was a really good team. You look back, you're like, oh, that was an error, but they never got over the hump. [27:22] And I think the Knicks and the Cavs are like that right now, where the Cavs, they've had this Mitchell... [27:27] little mini era here where they, they were able to get lucky with the Mobley being there and being able to draft him. And then the Jared Allen trade, you're basically getting him for nothing. [27:38] Um, and then, you know, Garland initially turned him and harder, but this is their window right now, I feel like. And then the next same thing. [27:45] where they went all in with the bridges. They were able to dump Randall at the perfect time. We're going to talk about him later. They get Towns. That trade turned out really well. And this is the window right now for them.

[27:57] And this is why when I think about this series, like... [28:01] For one of these teams, whoever loses this, [28:04] I don't think it'll be a, well, we made the conference finals. I think this is like, this was our fucking chance to make the finals. [28:11] So there's real stakes here that, not that there isn't always stakes for the conference finals, but I feel like this is like a four-year road to this series. Yeah, I mean, look, if you're right, [28:21] And one of these teams comes out feeling... [28:23] disappointed to the point where they view change as necessary. [28:27] like certainly the bucks are hoping for just maximum disappointment around the top [28:33] whatever teams in the league, including these two teams. And it is like, I talked about this last week. Like imagine if Cleveland comes back and wins the series and they did like, what does that mean for Harden's future with the team? It seems to solidify it, right? Does it solidify Mitchell's? But like, you're right. If they just get rolled, if one of these, it's different if you go to seven and it's just like both teams played really, really well. It's a heroics, awesome series. And they're like, you know, it's a tip your cap kind of series, but if it's four one and we get exposed on the glass, like Mitchell Robinson four years ago, [29:03] exposed us on the glass or for one and cat has another existential crisis week like the cat thing goes back this way where he's fouling and like all of a sudden you just can't recapture whatever it is you had against philadelphia and at the end of the atlanta series like you're right there could be there could be certainly disappointment to the point of like all right we got to pivot i i i mean we'll see how it goes i guess [29:25] The problem with some of this stuff, I remember you talking about this.

[29:29] when Dame was leaving Portland about like, [29:32] They made the 2019 Western Finals. That's a win. They were one of the four teams left. [29:39] But the whole Dame era in Portland, I don't look at it as like, oh, man, they were rolling. You know, we go back and we... [29:48] We look at that Western Finals. It's like, I was a little fluky. The Houston and Golden State was really the Western Finals that year. [29:54] But, [29:55] That was an error, and I was thinking about the [29:57] Get over the hump teams. The grit and grind Grizzlies is a great one. [30:02] made the finals. I mean, made the conference finals, right? They put some series together. They had some upsets. It was the distinct era. They could never get over the hump. [30:11] Lab City Clippers, Paul George Pacers. [30:14] Your favorite, the Coach Bud Hawks. [30:17] Blazers. The Harden Rockets is probably the most successful example of just a ton of success, but never actually made the finals. [30:27] The Celtics, pre-COVID Celtics, basically, 16 to 20. [30:31] where they made the Eastern Finals, I think, four to five times. That whole year in the Eastern Conference basketball, it was just Cleveland and a bunch of whatever. [30:40] Yeah, so, and Knicks and Cavs now, and then, [30:44] And then the wolves, and we'll talk about the wolves later because I want to do what do you do, but. [30:49] Sometimes like [30:50] Being one of the final four teams is okay. [30:53] I think we just overreact to where it's like, we didn't win the title. What do we do? And it's like, I don't know, man. There's 30 teams in this league. There's a lot of good players. If I'm the Cavs, I'm like, all right, this is pretty good. We were down 2-0 in the second round. We made it. Maybe let's cool the Jets on...

[31:10] on all the panic stuff. Now, if they had lost tonight, I would have had five trades for you. [31:16] I totally agree. Making the conference finals is really hard and there's only four teams left and you're one of them. And you've learned something about yourself. You're going to be better off for it the next year when you're in the playoffs. And, you know, you were doing the hump thing. Like I was like, where's the hump? Because a lot of these teams you were mentioning made the conference finals, but not the finals. And I guess that is the finals. I mean, that's like and again, like, what are you going to tear down a conference finals team? Because now you have decisions to make and the salary cap forces you to make decisions and all that kind of stuff. [31:46] to get that far in the playoffs. The West is just a completely different animal. Minnesota loses to San Antonio in the second round of the playoffs. I'm supposed to panic about... Now, there are things to panic about. Julius Randle disappearing is a thing to panic about. Rudy Gobert kind of sneakily disappeared in the last two or three games. Sneakily? Well, I mean... That was a catastrophe. I was trying to be nice for Rudy. Because everyone just... He's just the punching bag of the NBA. No, I know he's a punching bag. I'm trying to be nice. He's been [32:16] Nice to him. Putting that aside, if I'm Minnesota, I'm really scared that one of the people I have to go through in my conference, Victor Rembidyama, [32:23] Just completely annihilated by center. I don't know what to do with that. To the point, and Stan was making it on the broadcast, and I talked about it last week too on my pod, they were rejiggering their rotations, the Wolves war, to have Rudy in the game only when Wemby was not in the game. Not good. Or a limit. Yeah, so look, but it's hard to make the conference finals. The Cavs are pretty young. And yeah, I don't know. There was something else I was going to say and I forgot, but it's hard to make the conference finals.

[32:53] With the trade. [32:55] So we talk about [32:56] They're obviously not panicked. They're young. Dern's 22. Cade's in his mid-20s. [33:03] there's a trade for a second score. Let's try to get Kate some help. [33:08] No question. There's probably a Kawhi Leonard conversation. [33:14] There's probably a we don't have enough to get Jalen Brown conversation, but let's at least kick the tires. There's a, hey, do we make our version of the Desmond Bain conversation? [33:22] Mikael Bridges trade for Trey Murphy and see if New Orleans is interested in that. But I think it's somebody like that. I think it's [33:29] I think they have to find a reliable second scorer that is not Tobias Harris. I thought Tobias had a good season. [33:35] And I actually really like the way he played the regular season, but the playoffs speak for itself. The question that you're going to have to face is what's the salary that, [33:45] that you're throwing in, [33:47] I mean, you can throw in all your picks, I guess, and that's pretty valuable. Throw in all your picks, all your swaps. They got everything, but... [33:52] I got to get up to a number, right? Like if I'm the names you're mentioning, I got, I got to get up to even a big number. [33:59] They have Robinson, who's 16 a year. [34:02] the next two, but he's only two million guaranteed this year. So they can get out of that [34:06] Um, [34:07] I think they could trade Stewart pretty easily, and I think that's somebody that teams would want. But just throw Jalen – you just threw Jalen Brown's name in there. The Boston Celtics are not trading finals MVP Jalen Brown for Isaiah Stewart, Duncan Robinson, and a bunch of Detroit first-round picks. You're not getting a guy like that.

[34:24] And the problem is they're not getting Kawhi or Trey Murphy for what they have to trade anyway. Unless Thompson is involved. [34:32] In some sort of capacity. They're not doing that. But that's the other thing. They have to figure out, do they extend Thompson? Do they give him... [34:40] Do they jump the gun on the RFA season and take it out, basically? I mean, look, we could get [34:47] a lot of pretty, I mean, we had the four guys who just hung in restricted free agency forever last year because there was nothing out there for them. We've seen the Rockets already play pretty tough with some of their internal free agents and just say, we're not giving you the max. How about this? And if you don't take it, we'll just happily negotiate against you in restricted free agency. And I think more teams should do that. I mean, I hate restricted free agency. It sucks for the players, but it's a rule. And I don't think teams have adequately taken [35:17] chip [35:19] 8 to 10 million a year off some of these contracts. Again, it sucks for the players, but it's, it's a weapon that you're, you have collectively bargained to have, [35:27] And I like... [35:29] It also really hurts the flexibility of being able to fix your roster. Once you do that extension, you're poison-pilled. Look, these are just the rules. I have to live in the unit. I can think about other rules, but these are the rules that exist now. And under those rules, I'm not extending Asar Thompson now unless he's willing to take a pretty big discount. And if I'm Asar Thompson's agent, I'd say, oh, no, I want the max. It's 25%. And then we're not negotiating. Then we'll take it to restrictive agency. Yeah.

[35:57] If a Sar Thompson's agent asked that or said that, [36:02] I would cut [36:03] a 45-minute video of him missing eight-footers and be like, we're not giving you the max. And here's our 45-minute answer on that. Can he make an eight-footer? Can he make an eight-footer? I don't know if that would go over well. I think that would be perceived as rude. [36:18] What were the backyard basketball one-on-one games between the Thompson twins like? [36:23] ferocious i wouldn't want to be a part of those games just incredible is that why they both can't shoot because the other one was so great defensively they never figured out how to make an open shot just four hour games and people like we got to eat dinner i know it's two two to eleven but when dinner is ready it's getting cold can we just call it at three um it's like two two cheetahs just fighting unable to gain upper ground on each other uh i'm gonna just quickly give you my [36:49] I had some Cleveland content in case they lost about what would happen. [36:54] I was really excited about some of this. I wrote down in all caps, LeBron is looming. [36:59] I think we can close the door now for the LeBron comes back to Cleveland. [37:04] hey guys, I'm a former champ. I'm here to help. What if they lose? What if they get swept? I mean, I don't think they would. What if it's 4-1 and it ends with a whimper? Really? You're just closing it. [37:15] What's the golf like in Cleveland? Because I think that's going to be the number one determiner for him. Probably not great for a large percentage of the year. I think he has to stay in California. I had some Mitchell trades, though. Okay. Let's say, how about this? If Mitchell gets swept, if the Cavs get swept,

[37:31] I'm just trying to figure out what his value is. [37:33] Fourth pick Chicago is... [37:36] Chicago's not doing that, right? [37:38] I would think not. New GM, new lease on life. Let's get a cornerstone. New guys, young guys. [37:45] But Brooklyn's six-pick, which I think is for sale. They were the first team that came to my mind when you just started. So six-pick, Traore, and a future first, call it in. [37:54] Um, [37:56] Sacramento, seventh pick with Levine, and I get another Sacramento pick. And then – [38:02] And then Atlanta, eighth pick with Dyson Daniels, something there. [38:06] he'd be very good on Atlanta. I mean, he'd be very good anywhere, but there would have been, [38:11] a really interesting discussion to be had of Donovan Mitchell, [38:15] Almost 30%. [38:18] eligible to sign... [38:19] just one of these extensions. There's just going to be a gigantic amount of money if it's a max extension going into his mid-30s with a playoff record that I think, by the way, has been a little bit underrated as he's come under some scrutiny in this series. I think he's been pretty goddamn good in the playoffs. And there's been a couple of series the last two years for the Cavs where he felt like the only one... [38:41] he was like the bus driver and just, just, just the only one that was really up for a fight. Orlando game seven was a good one too. And he was great tonight. And, and, but there still would have been interesting discussion. Like, you know, small guard 30 plus 30 into 33, 34, 35 on pay him 70 million. And he's never made the conference finals. And that discussion is at least forestalled for now. The bigger issue for me with that kind of money is, do you make anyone better? Which he was not doing during the playoffs, but he did tonight. I did get, uh,

[39:09] Got an email earlier today from Alex Taylor. This is before we knew the results. [39:14] who said being a Cavs fan is a lot like having an elderly relative you're taking care of. [39:19] I always have to watch and I'm rooting for them, but I kind of can't wait for this shit to be over with. It's a dark email. That is. Yeah. I think that's where the Cavs fans are mentally, I guess. I needed a trigger warning for that. That was awful. Alex Taylor. Jeez, Alex Taylor. And then this one I got before game seven. [39:37] from Britt Pierce about watching James Harden push off on every drive and flop all over the floor. The best playoff moment this year has to be Dean Wade slipping on Harden's sweat spot. And Tobias getting the runout dunk. The referee should be embarrassed for letting the ship for two decades. [39:53] That would have been, if the Cavs had lost, that would have been the signature play. But they won, and now nobody will remember it. There also would have been, like, I'm sure there was an understanding between James Harden and the Cleveland Cavaliers about what would come next when he has this player option for next year. And the Clippers, there was clearly an understanding about what would and would not come next with the Clippers. And when there's an understanding of that nature, James Harden tends to change teams and find one where he finds a better understanding. But if they had just flamed out in this series, and by the way, [40:21] He was two of 10 today. It's not like he covered himself in glory in this game. He just didn't turn the ball over a lot. I liked it. I thought he was good. Two for 10 was deceiving. [40:31] I do think, and again, I'm sure they've already kind of talked about it, but I – [40:36] I would have been like, can you just opt into your player option and we can just wash our hands of this? Because he's getting old in front of my eyes.

[40:44] I don't think that's what happens. I think the player option is 43. Yeah. [40:48] No, he's, it's what's going to happen is he's going to opt out and get a longer deal. But I'm saying if he, if they flame out in the series and he goes down, like he's gone down at other game sevens before, if I'm the Cavs, I'm like, I don't know, man, how many more years of this? Like, I know we traded Garland. Don't you want to do, what if it was like 27 and 27? [41:06] She's going to take that. [41:09] I guess he would. But he was in the... [41:12] What draft was he in? 2009? He's old. He's getting old. It's just him and Curry from that draft now, right? [41:17] Is there anybody else from that draft? I don't know. You're better at the draft stuff than I am. I think that was – But you do get to have him as a trade ship in case you have one of those meetings that doesn't go well, and then he gets traded to another place. Well, the question is, is this the third straight team he felt like he was wink-wink promise, something that then did not materialize? Yeah, I did. I didn't sense – [41:39] I didn't sense a lot of empathy for Daryl Morey from the James Harden camp when the news of Daryl Morey's firing was rippling through the combine in Chicago last week. I want to invite Daryl on my podcast and just pour truth serum into him, get him to tell all kinds of stuff. Would the painting of Harden be in the background? Do you think he still has the painting? Remember the Ramona Shelburne wrote that piece and it was like, sit in the living room, stands this painting of commission from this artist for this amount of money. And it's James Harden doing this. [42:09] It's a quote from Darrell being like, yes, he's my muse. We will be forever connected. We hugged on the tarmac all those years ago.

[42:17] Well, when he has his podcast on The Ringer, maybe James will be one of the first 10 guests on the Daryl and Doc show. The Daryl and Doc show? The Daryl and Doc show would be amazing. I don't. [42:27] I don't think that one will happen. [42:30] I don't know if there's a lot of The mismatch part 2 The mismatch 2.0 Yeah that would be more than a mismatch I don't see those two getting together for a pod Alright Nick's [42:42] Knicks Cavs. [42:44] Do it. Well, you'll do Tuesday morning, so you'll be able to do a pick on that series. So I want to step on your podcast. Listen to Zach's pod. I'm going to pick the Knicks. There's no amount of film study or whatever that I'm doing tomorrow that is going to make me pick the Cavs. I'm picking the Knicks. It's just a matter of how many games. [43:00] I would lean right now toward Nixon 5%. [43:05] just because I think Mitchell will have one game when he goes nuts. [43:09] that's usually what happens with him. I'll have one game where everything goes right, would be my guess, but I don't... I just think the Knicks... [43:17] It's weird. I, [43:19] We have three classes of teams this year, not two, as we get into the Final Four, because we have this OKC San Antonio all the way up here. [43:27] I think we have the Knicks here, but puncher's chance of being able to hang in a series against either of those teams. No question. And then probably the Cavs here. I think those are the three levels. [43:36] Yeah, I think that's fair. I think the Knicks could win the championship. I wouldn't bet on it. I'm not going to pick them over either of the Western Conference teams. But if you told me it's a 25% chance they could win one of those series, that sounds reasonable to me.

[43:50] I think the Knicks winning the championship... [43:53] This is going to get cut out and no social media video. I'm fine with it. [43:56] I think the Knicks winning the championship... [43:59] is the biggest thing left in any sport. [44:03] Other than... [44:04] The Bills, Vikings... [44:06] or Detroit Lions winning a Super Bowl? [44:09] And I probably left out another team where their friends are going to get mad at me. [44:13] But when you think about [44:14] The Knicks not winning since 73, but the generations of fans... [44:19] and the drought of 20 years. And there's just so many parallels to me with the Red Sox pre-04 season. [44:26] Um, [44:27] the, the, [44:29] Just the emotion that will come out of that, we cannot... [44:32] I don't think there's another basketball team that would have it. [44:35] And there's some that it's unrealistic because like the Sacramento Kings, as long as they have the current owners will never win the title. [44:42] So we can't even be like, oh, in Sacramento, we'll never know because they're not going to win. [44:47] Phoenix, a little bit, just because of all their tough losses. But I just think the Knicks have the most fans – [44:54] New York's the biggest city we have. [44:56] generations of fans going back to the 50s and grandfathers and great-grandfathers and that i just think it's the biggest thing we have i well look i mean outside the arena is already a complete shit show after every game and i mean that mostly affectionately but also like leave jr smith alone and leave poor brian winhorse alone this year if he comes to town um it's already insane there um and yeah i mean they're the knicks i mean this is they are [45:19] an absolutely iconic team. They're a New York's team, and New York is a big, gigantic city. I would throw out the Timberwolves-Vikings twofer.

[45:27] in Minnesota would be pretty huge. [45:30] Well, how about this? Minnesota hasn't won a title ever. [45:33] of any kind since 91. And I don't even think the twins, I don't even think they've been in the finals in any sports since 91. [45:41] I'm pretty sure that's true. I mean, my North Star slash wild history is a little muddled. But the thing is, I know there's been a bunch of teams that have had droughts or have never won at all. The Maple Leafs fans are listening to me right now. What about us? The Knicks are the biggest city in America. They have the most fans. The point is they've had 53 years of just getting their teeth kicked in and they have just a shitload of fans. So that's [46:06] That's why I would make that argument. Can I give you one more? The Mets are at 40, by the way. I'm aware. And we beat the Yankees today and come from behind the bottom of the 10th win to take the Subway Series yet again. [46:16] Can I just throw one other team at you? [46:19] Yeah. I am curious to know... [46:23] what modern Atlanta would feel like if they got a team that they really felt like this could be a championship team. The Bud Hawks, I think everybody knew they're going to run into the Cleveland buzzsaw at some point. And this was a very fun team and a very fun story for the basketball seed. Like, oh, they passed the ball. They do all this cool stuff with Korver. What if they got a cool-ass dude? I mean, Trey Young was, but they didn't. Like Anthony Edwards? [46:50] Whatever. Don't do that. University of Georgia, Georgia native, Anthony Edwards. And had a team where you actually believed. That seems like they would go crazy there.

[47:01] That would be a pretty good one. [47:03] Hey, listen, lots of teams haven't won. Indiana, Indiana. [47:07] get back there after the Halliburton coming so close and Halliburton going down, like that would be another one. But, um, I just think the Knicks have the, they've so many fans and some, but I, [47:16] You and I, I mean, it's a little less fair for you because you're in the vicinity. I'm in the heartlands. I just noticed so many Knicks, and it's like all they want. [47:24] This is it. [47:26] Um, [47:27] All right. [47:29] I'm going Nixon five. Okay. This is my pick. I don't know what the ads are. Let's, uh, [47:34] Let's talk Spurs OKC. Oh, my God. [47:39] You... [47:42] You were asking me what I thought the most anticipated series was. [47:47] has been since you and I have known each other, which was 2011. [47:51] I tried to hire you. It didn't work out. And then you finally... [47:54] Finally came to Grantland the next year. [47:57] Um, [47:58] And you sent me all these series that you thought were in the running for most anticipated playoff series. Trying to get my headspace back into what it felt like before those series started. [48:08] Yeah, Kirk and I talked about this for a scratch on Tuesday. And I said that I felt like this was the biggest series in eight years, but I didn't really put a ton of thought into it. And then when you and I were talking about it, [48:19] I think the weirder thing to me is that we haven't had like a, [48:23] mammoth series like this in eight years. And I don't really know all the reasons for that because [48:29] I do think we have a lot of talent.

[48:32] In the 2020s. [48:34] I don't know if it's bad luck or... [48:37] I don't really have an answer, but I know that this is... [48:40] This feels like the single biggest series we've had, at least since the first Cavs Warriors one. But what would you... [48:46] What would you go? What was the top five that you landed on? First of all, my theories as to the void that you just talked about. I have a few theories. Let's hear it. No, let's dive into it. I'm curious. I think the pandemic fucked up two and a half seasons. They just didn't... Not that they don't... Lakers fans, I'm not saying that. It just didn't... The games didn't feel the same, obviously. I'll say it. The games are in a fucking bubble with cardboard cutouts of fans. That was insane. [49:16] And then I think the parity, like we've had seven champions in seven years, we just haven't had these two colossuses who are rising next to each other and meeting in the playoffs over and over again. 60 plus win, just like juggernauts. And now we're going to have that. I'll give you my top five. I made my top five. Before you give me the top five. Yeah. [49:36] I have a point off your point. [49:37] you [49:38] Thank you. [49:39] Because I'm glad you brought up the COVID. I think that would have been the best and biggest and most anticipated series. But we didn't get it because COVID. It would have been Lakers, Clippers, first Kawhi year, second LeBron year. They were the two best teams in the league. And we were headed that way. And I remember... [49:55] the weekend before all the COVID shit happened. And I think they might've even played that weekend. And it just was clearly, I remember doing a podcast that Sunday and it was like,

[50:04] This is it, man. We're headed... [50:05] We've never had the LA versus LA collision course. This is fucking happening. Kawhi was the... [50:10] reigning finals MVP. LeBron had his fastball back. Davis was there. We were heading for it. [50:16] And it didn't happen. Streetlights over spotlights. The Clippers had the whole ad campaign that was like, we're the anti-Lakers of LA. It was great. And it just immediately was over for two plus years. We never had the awesome Nuggets before. [50:32] kind of, oh my God, Nuggets series either. And probably the closest was that first battle with the Timberwolves when the Timberwolves ended up beating them in game seven. But there wasn't the anticipation for that, like with the Spurs. Yeah, the Nuggets. Anyway. The Nuggets are in a bunch, like a bunch of my honorable mention, top 20 anticipated series. Like I think Thunder Nuggets last year was like, that was a pretty hot series. But again, it wasn't like, it was earlier. No, you need like, it needs to feel like this is the finals right now. [50:59] There's big legacy altering stuff. I have two of... [51:03] Hopefully the two best guys in the league, but at least two of the best three or four. Like you got to check a lot of boxes with this, which is what this series does. [51:11] So what do you got? My top five. I did this from LeBron signing in Miami until now. Top five most anticipated series. I sent you a list. I have like 20 finalists. My top five were I'll go in reverse order. Number five. [51:24] Oklahoma City San Antonio Western Conference Finals 2012 it was like the old guys versus the young guys the Spurs had acquired D out at the end of that like the middle of that season and they were on like a 20 game winning streak going into that series or they killed the Clippers killed them they I think they had won 20 straight games after going up 2-0 in that series and then the Thunder were like oh we're just younger and more athletic and we're actually ready and they

[51:54] 2012, which was a great basketball season. And it was right after the lockout. [51:59] So it was all condensed, sped up, and there was just a lot of basketball happening. [52:03] Um, and the thing that sucked is we lost Eric Rose at the beginning of that playoffs, but we had Chicago, Miami, Boston on one side. [52:12] And then we had this Lob City team that came out of nowhere because Chris Paul ended up on the Clippers. You had this proud Spurs team trying to get their throne back. [52:19] You had OKC, [52:21] you know, ascending, [52:23] Um, [52:24] And then you... [52:26] You had, there was one more, right? OKC, Clippers. No, that's it. Those three. So we had six teams. Grit and Grind Memphis was floating around there. Yeah, kind of lurking, but... [52:36] But yeah, that was a [52:37] I thought both of those Thunder series because Heat Thunder in the next round was also really great. But I like the non-finals for this. Okay. I'm with you on that one. Number four most anticipated series. Warriors Thunder Western Conference Finals 2016 ends up being the Klay Thompson Game 6 series. So I had that higher. I had that second on my list. Okay. Because it was 73-9. Okay. [53:02] It felt like it was Durant's last... [53:05] Maybe he was getting out of there. Maybe he was going to Washington. Maybe he was going to Boston. The Golden State buzz had started, but most people didn't know whether to believe it or not. [53:14] But it just felt like there was... [53:16] Something momentous happening. [53:18] ahead of us. [53:20] I'm not done with that team that year yet on my list. Great. Number three out of a bunch of candidates from this two-year era.

[53:29] The 2014 finals, Heat Spurs 2. I think just the happiest I've ever been covering basketball was being at the back-to-back Heat Spurs finals. Just so many awesome players, awesome storylines. The vengeance storyline in the second one, the 2014 one after the Ray Allen shot the year before broke the Spurs hearts. [53:50] Uh, and he favored for that series too, which people forget. I think that's the air conditioning game is in that series where the air conditioning goes out. Uh, I honorable mention. I just think the Spurs, the Spurs Thunder conference finals from that year is also awesome. Um, that's my number, that's my number three. By the way, Clippers, Clippers Thunder that year was awesome too, right? Wasn't that 14? Honorable mention. Not so awesome for the Clippers, but honorable mention. Uh, the Clippers had quite a dramatic playoff run that year with Donald Sterling happening right before. [54:20] Number two... [54:22] The 2016 NBA Finals, 73 win Warriors, LeBron and the Cavs. Just the rematch after the first one had Kyrie injured, Kevin Love injured, and it ended up being not quite a fair fight as the Warriors won their first title. And number one, just slightly over that, [54:39] 2018 Western Conference Finals Warriors versus the Rockets team with Chris Paul and James Harden. And they switched everything and were built to beat the Warriors and actually had them on the ropes. The Durant Warriors, the invincible Warriors that had gone 16 and one in the playoffs the year before. I think that was my number one. [54:57] It's a great list. So I had five of the six.

[55:01] Bolded. [55:03] The one you didn't mention that I think has lost the history and was fucking awesome was Warriors Rockets 2019. [55:09] when Durant was hurt. [55:12] And it felt like it was... [55:13] We were headed toward the end of this Warriors run. That was awesome. [55:17] Um, weren't probably weren't getting Durant back. It was Houston's best chance to take them down. [55:23] And then Curry had that incredible second half. I think it was game six. [55:27] what do you have like 30 in the second half? I think it's zero. I think it might have had zero in the first half. And it's also not just one of my favorite Curry games. It's one of my favorite Curry and Draymond together games. Cause they just run the same two man game on the right side of the floor over and over again, down the stretch. But they do six different things out of it in six different possessions. And the Rockets just don't even know what the hell hit them. And it's one open shot after another 18, 18, [55:53] Western finals is a great one because... [55:56] It kind of did feel like the finals that LeBron had nobody left on the cabs that season. [56:02] uh that [56:03] weird Celtic team that didn't even have Kyrie and Hayward almost made the finals came within [56:08] A couple of mysteries. A couple? Like a thousand mysteries. A couple of hundred. [56:13] But we also had the Chris Paul... [56:16] Could this be it? [56:17] And then he gets hurt in game four. That was an awesome series. [56:21] For this decade, [56:23] You wrote down Clippers Mavs 21. [56:27] Bucks Nets 21, Nuggets Suns 23, Sixers Celtics 23, Wolves Nuggets 24, Nuggets Clips 25, and

[56:35] Thunder Nuggets 25, the only one. [56:37] I think could be in the discussion as Bucks-Nets... [56:41] Um, [56:42] I can't remember when the injury started, but it was Giannis coming off two straight MVPs, [56:48] It was your greatest theoretical team of all time, the Nets. [56:51] It kind of felt like whoever won that series was making the finals. [56:55] And as it turned out, it was the correct assumption because the other series was Hawk Sixers. [57:00] which was the, uh, [57:02] the end of Ben Simmons' career as we knew it. But Bucks Nets was... [57:06] I think we were excited for that. And then the injuries just started coming. [57:10] Yeah, we were. I was trying to remember trying to put myself back into the space of like, I must have been pretty pumped for that series. COVID was back at that point. It was just that 21 was weird. I don't really remember. And by the way, I now remember as I'm going through the whole list of my honorable mentions, the very first one on my honorable mentions list chronologically is the 2011 NBA finals heat. [57:33] Mavs. And we were talking before about how [57:36] Making the conference finals and losing... [57:39] should not be treated as some catastrophic failure where I have to upend my entire team and pivot in a different direction. And what I forgot to say and now remember to say is that Mavericks team is the quintessential example of that. Yeah, they tweaked here and there, but they failed in the playoffs over and over and over again with Dirk, often in high profile ways. And they just took the attitude of it's not that bad to be a 50 to 58 win team every year and just be good and good and good and maybe hit great in the right year where we get the

[58:09] the right chemistry, whatever, and maybe will win a title. And they won the title, and it's one of the most beloved title teams of the last quarter century of the NBA. They are the poster team for – [58:18] You don't always have to like blow it up or trade three people when you're running into a wall. [58:24] in the conference finals or wherever over and over again. So what are the 22 warriors, the poster boy of there? Because they won the title anyway, even though they should have made trades and they didn't because they were doing the two timelines bullshit. Well, I think they're the poster thing of like, if you have a top 12 player of all time, wherever you think Steph is like, you should and he's in his prime. Just like, just keep trying to win. And, [58:47] They did. [58:48] basketball was really good from 12 to 14. We just had a lot of good teams and a lot of good players. I think the 2010 Celtic Lakers rematch was, [58:58] Dorf saw this... [59:00] I think for a variety of reasons, it also feels like... [59:04] It feels like [59:05] the end of [59:07] basketball and the start of this new era of basketball, ironically, in this new decade when the three started to come in and the new [59:15] Durant moved up and Curry and all of this. LeBron went to Miami. It just feels like basketball shifts. [59:20] as a sport. And that Celtic Lakers series, incredible anticipation. [59:24] but also feels like the end of a specific generation at the same time. I remember thinking at the time, [59:31] And I was not at this is 17 years ago, whatever, 16 years ago, not as well versed in like the early, early history of the NBA as you were then. I am now. [59:38] So you can talk about the 69 finals, whatever. Great. I remember thinking at that time,

[59:44] Could you make the argument that this Game 7... [59:47] is the biggest game in the history of the NBA. Celtics, Lakers, Lakers trying to close the title gap, Kobe, the big three Celtics going for one last ring when it felt like they should have had another one and never did. And just, I don't think that was a crazy, I mean, I'm sure we could go back and find other, [1:00:04] candidates for such a lofty designation, but it had to be up there. Yeah, there's a couple of finals that I think levitate above... [1:00:13] the rest of them. 2016 is definitely like that. I mean, that's [1:00:17] You could argue that that might be the biggest one. No, I'm just saying at the time in 2010, I was thinking, is this one game? Obviously, yeah, 2016, that was. No, but I'm saying going into certain series and being like, wow, the stakes just feel higher right now. [1:00:32] That's why, like, if we get a game seven in this first Thunder series. Oh, my God. I think we're going to feel that way. [1:00:38] Right. Because I know Wemby's 22, but I don't care, man. He's seven foot seven. You got to take it year by year when somebody's got that kind of size. And I just I'm always nervous about injuries with them. [1:00:49] And then OKC, [1:00:51] you know, [1:00:54] You just never know. It's really hard to just put title seasons together. It's hard to keep everybody happy. They've done a great job of it. [1:01:01] Presti famously... [1:01:04] And some of this stuff's starting to come out a little about how he approaches player evaluation and stuff, but really thinks about, [1:01:10] personality, chemistry, [1:01:12] wanting to build these guys that are all going to pull for each other. That's why he sees somebody like Jared McCain and just grabs him.

[1:01:17] There's like a certain type of person that he values. [1:01:20] And they probably had the best chance of anyone of having a long, long run with a tail without any disease and more stuff happening. [1:01:28] Well, you talk about stakes, like... [1:01:31] Shea just won his second MVP in a row today. It was announced. [1:01:35] If he, they go, if they break. Shams somehow scooped everybody, but was it a scoop? Did we, did anyone think Shams? [1:01:43] Shay was not winning the MVP. Is there one person? [1:01:47] I'm sure... [1:01:49] I don't think it was a surprise, but I'm sure the league and its broadcast partners preferred that to be out a different way. Yeah, that wasn't great. But if they break the no-repeat streak in the NBA now and he wins another finals MVP and they're still pretty young, the historical stakes for him and for the Thunder team are now very big. And they will begin to... [1:02:14] If they win another title and they break the no-repeat run, they will begin to put themselves into position with another title, whether it's next. Like, if they win three out of four or four out of seven or something, they will get into some pretty... [1:02:28] big historical discussions. And that starts now. That starts with this title, and this is the first time [1:02:35] It feels like they've barely participated in the playoffs. It's been so easy for them. And now we're here. [1:02:41] Yeah, back-to-back finals MVP season. [1:02:44] Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and Durant. That's the entire list.

[1:02:48] And then back-to-back regular season MVPs, Russell, Will, Kareem, Moses, Bird, Magic, Jordan, [1:02:53] Duncan Nash, LeBron Curry, Giannis, and Jokic. [1:02:58] Deanna's second MVP... [1:03:00] Kind of, [1:03:01] Got to reinvestigate that one at some point. [1:03:04] Well, look, no one reinvestigates an MVP race like you. I mean, you got a whole team under you. I think I voted for Giannis, but now it's like when they always talk about that LeBron winning up MVPs, that might have been the shaky one that he should have taken. [1:03:18] Did he finish second? [1:03:20] I got, I'd, I'd have to look back. Yeah. I don't know. I remember voting for Giannis both times. Um, [1:03:25] So anyway, the... [1:03:27] The people who have done the back-to-back regular season and finals MVP, it's not a [1:03:32] - Not a long list. Also, speaking of MVP, [1:03:35] Jokic got second place. [1:03:37] He officially top two MVP six straight years, him, Bird, and Russell. That's the whole list. Wow. I thought it would be a little closer in the voting than it was. [1:03:47] Yeah, 83 first placers for Shea, 10 for Joker, and 5 for... [1:03:53] So you thought Joker would get more votes? [1:03:56] Who do you think was going to get more votes? I thought Jokic would [1:04:00] would snag [1:04:01] like [redacted address] votes or would just be a little bit less of a route. [1:04:05] Um, [1:04:06] Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling? [1:04:15] Does this sound like you?

[1:04:18] Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. [1:04:48] Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. [1:04:54] Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. [1:05:07] This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. [1:05:09] Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. [1:05:16] New Whole Foods Market Peach Apricot Rose Italian Soda. [1:05:21] Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango yuzu chantilly cake. [1:05:27] But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide.com. [1:05:37] and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. [1:05:47] Getting to a great idea is hard in college. Nonsensical essays, cringe-inducing presentations, and seemingly unsolvable problem sets.

[1:05:56] But then, the first thought becomes a final thesis. Jumbled slides transform into a polished keynote, and that midterm assignment gets a lot less mid. Because the road to great ideas is littered with bad ones. You just have to keep going until something clicks. Great ideas start on Mac. Find out more on apple.com slash college. [1:06:16] Thank you. [1:06:17] I have a, [1:06:18] a segment I didn't tell you about called Spurs OKC Legacy Check. Okay. Well, let's check some legacies out. [1:06:25] Just mention Shea. [1:06:27] Okay. He's... [1:06:28] Really going for something unique here with the back-to-back and finals MVP and round MVP. [1:06:34] Chet? [1:06:36] has there's seeds of the wimpy feud going really since like 2023. [1:06:42] It's like, something's here that doesn't seem like there's... [1:06:45] A lot of love between these two guys and [1:06:48] Um, [1:06:49] Now they have a chance to really go at it. I think he's solidified himself as the second best Thunder guy. [1:06:56] He's probably the second best defender in the league. [1:06:58] second best center. [1:07:00] He's their best chance to [1:07:03] maybe nullify Wemby a little bit. I don't know if Wemby can be nullified. It might be impossible. Well, he's definitely not the second best center in the NBA. I'm sorry. That was a joke. Yes. Third best center. But, um, [1:07:16] I mean, this goes back to before. [1:07:18] you know, they were even in the NBA, the international basketball scene. There's a lot of there's a lot of Wemby Chet history. And I'm just going to say, like. [1:07:26] Just let's see how Jalen Williams looks before. I mean, it doesn't really matter. They're both awesome. But before we definitively say that Chet has now surpassed him as the second best player in the Thunder, I mean, this was a dude who was like.

[1:07:38] Oh my God, is he going to steal finals MVP at the last minute here? Is he still in the league? Yeah, he's going to play. He's ready. Oh, I forgot what he looked like. [1:07:46] Well, get ready. He's going to look, you're going to see him again. [1:07:51] He was on my legacy list. I wrote Jalen Williams hyphen. [1:07:56] Um, [1:07:57] Were you here? [1:07:59] I guess he was there. [1:08:01] Do you not remember the finals last year? He was unbelievable. I know. He was awesome. I had him like 12th in my ringer 100. Just like to see him play. [1:08:10] Can you play some basketball? Legacy. [1:08:15] Sam Presti. [1:08:16] Okay? [1:08:18] I think a title... [1:08:19] Getting by this series and then the next series, I think officially... [1:08:25] He becomes one of the great GMs of all time. [1:08:27] I think it's just official. You're talking RBAC and West and Riley, Jerry Krause. [1:08:33] Pick anyone, but... [1:08:34] to put that whole Durant run together, not have a quick at there and then do what he did with this decade. [1:08:42] He's certainly been the best GM in the league [1:08:46] For how many years now? [1:08:48] The one that people point to? Yeah. I mean, 15? 15? [1:08:52] I don't know if it's quite that long. It's a very long time. And indisputably, he's going to go in the pantheon of the best ever to do it. [1:08:59] Yeah. [1:09:01] AJ Mitchell? [1:09:04] Best contract in the league. [1:09:07] Bordering on one of the best this century with the way he's playing, making $3 million a year. Ridiculous trade bait or keep bait for them.

[1:09:14] And, [1:09:15] In my opinion... [1:09:16] Hold on to your horses, Zach Lowe. [1:09:18] Yeah. [1:09:19] The single most important Thunder player in the series. Thunderer? [1:09:24] single most important funder for this reason. [1:09:28] The Spurs are going to [1:09:30] go small and do that three guard thing and try to do speed and unleash their pit bulls. And they need Mitchell to be really good. [1:09:36] They need him to be as good as he was the last two rounds. They're going to have to play lineups. [1:09:40] with him and SGA together, [1:09:42] and a defender, and might even have to go a little smaller, and he's just going to have to be good. He's going to have to [1:09:48] do what he's done. And we haven't seen him do it at this level. We've seen him do it in the regular season. We've seen him do it against [1:09:54] in series where they were much better than the other team, this is a whole other level. So we're going to find out. I love that you brought him up, and I think you did for exactly the right reasons. I think it's very much worth noting that he missed three out of the five games the teams played this year, and you felt his absence in the games he wasn't there. Just the secondary, the more ball handling you could, I mean, the Spurs' secret sauce against the Thunder was, we have a ton of ball handling and enough that we can, A, get into the paint against your defense, and B, not collapse in a hail of turnover, [1:10:24] because we have reliable guards and that's what you feast on. But the Thunder can play similar lineups now that A.J. Mitchell has become A.J. Mitchell to this degree. [1:10:33] And I think we're going to see, like I've been waiting for the Thunder death lineup all year and we've barely seen it. And it's Shay. [1:10:40] AJ Mitchell Caruso Jalen Williams Chet Holmgren at the end of some games or in crunch time of some games it's we've had glimpses of it one of the glimpses was in one of the Spurs games I was rewatching all of it I think that's an awesome lineup that if we if we see everyone healthy we'll see a little bit more of it hopefully in this series than we've seen what's the lineup again.

[1:10:59] Shea, Mitchell, Jalen Williams, Caruso, Chet. It's like I want to close. Can I close? So I have enough defense with Caruso and Chet. [1:11:08] But I have a little more offense than AJ in the Dort spot. Three super dynamic ball handlers in Mitchell Shea and J-Dub. And I just think, look, there's no Dort, so you lose a little heft, right? And there's no Cason Wallace, who's sort of your defensive ace in the hole at all times. But just something to watch for. [1:11:27] Because the other thing with the Spurs... [1:11:29] is this is a fun series for them because they can play the Wemby with smaller guys line up. [1:11:34] They can play him with three guards and a swing. [1:11:36] you know, [1:11:38] play them with three and a half guards, whatever they want. And it's not like, okay, so you'll be like, okay, we're going big, and you're making, they're just not going to be able to do it. [1:11:46] So I do think the guards versus guards thing, which was a huge advantage for San Antonio. [1:11:51] OKC has the guards. So I have Mitchell. Alex Caruso, role player hall of fame is in reach now for him. Absolutely. This will be three titles for him. [1:12:01] I think they really need him in this series specifically because – [1:12:05] Um, [1:12:06] I want to see, who do you think guards Harper for them? [1:12:10] I mean, I think it's going to all of these are just going to be a combination of tons of different people, depending on who else is in the game. [1:12:16] All right, so let's say end of the game, they go Fox, Harper... [1:12:20] Um, [1:12:22] Castle. [1:12:24] Bissell and Wemby. [1:12:25] I mean, they rarely play that. The Spurs rarely put all three of the guards on the floor together. It just hasn't happened very much this year. But, sure, we can... They were doing a little more in the playoffs, though. Just a little, but not very much, because Champagny plays a ton. Keldon Johnson plays a ton. Yeah. And...

[1:12:43] Yeah, but so, and like, well, this is the, I mean, this is the interesting chess match of the series. It's right. Like, I think we would, the Thunder are awesome in any configuration and we have not seen hardly any of Hartenstein and Holmgren together. [1:12:56] against the Spurs with Wemby on the floor. So those two, the double big, the best double big they have. That you can't. You got to play shooters. [1:13:04] They've only played 33 minutes against the Spurs in five games. It was really only in three games. And if you go back and watch, a lot of them were against Cornett, [1:13:13] and Harrison Barnes because Wemby came off the bench in two of the games that they played. And so they start and Wemby comes in. Like when it's Wemby is the only big man on the floor for the Spurs and Chet is the only big man on the floor. [1:13:25] for the Thunder. I just think the chess match that's going to evolve over the course of the series is going to be fascinating, starting with, do they guard each other? And if so, how often? Because the Thunder have put Chet on, you know, Harrison Barnes, Kelton Johnson, basically not Wemby. And the Spurs have kind of toggled between Wemby. Sure, you can guard Chet, you can guard anybody, but we like you have like guard Caruso and Rove, guard Dort and Rove. Like, I just think that chess match is going to be super interesting. [1:13:53] And will Dort guard Wemby? Everyone got a shot. Is that something that will happen? Dort guarded Fox a lot. So their base alignment when it was one big versus one big, if they had one that was used the most frequently, it was like Dort on Fox and Jalen Williams on Wemby-Yama to switch that pick and roll, and they would have the bigs elsewhere on the floor. But Dort will guard Wemby some. Caruso guarded Wemby some. Like, they'll throw everybody. They'll put Hartenstein on them now and then,

[1:14:23] It's just going to be super interesting to see who guards who. [1:14:26] It's going to be, I don't, I'd love to know how many people OKC is going to actually settle on as the series goes along. [1:14:34] Because they were basically playing 10 and sometimes even 11 in the last two rounds. [1:14:38] But I think that gets narrowed down. [1:14:40] I think they probably end up at nine would be my guess, right? [1:14:44] That's usually what it is. Um, [1:14:47] I'll tell you, I can't tell if it was because... [1:14:50] OKC was, you know, like AJ Mitchell was out for a bunch of games, three of the games, as I mentioned. And but like a guy that saw a lot of the floor. [1:14:59] against the Spurs in the regular season games. [1:15:02] and who has not played hardly at all in the playoffs is Kenrich Williams. And I do wonder if he's someone that they look at as – [1:15:10] Do we try him at the five a little bit? Or we like his shooting at the four next to Chet. He guarded Wemby a bit. I wonder if he's a guy that is going to get a shot. [1:15:18] to play a little bit in the series. [1:15:21] Thank you. [1:15:23] Wemby, I have for legacy as this would be the single craziest ascent since 1977, Bill Walton. Pretty much. If you're just like, hey, I'm going to actually win four straight series and take the title here at age 22. [1:15:36] Harper is... [1:15:38] Definitely moving into that 1981 McHale. [1:15:41] 83 Worthy, 88 Pippen, 2003 Manu and Tony. [1:15:46] where, [1:15:47] This is just a guy at the beginning of his career who is also a huge chess piece. And it's somebody that

[1:15:53] I genuinely think he has a chance to be... [1:15:57] a Hall of Fame top 50 guard. [1:16:00] House and I were talking about the other day like [1:16:03] I was there when young Jason Kidd... [1:16:06] showed up and, [1:16:07] Some of the best guards of the last 40 years I've seen in the beginning stages, I just think he has it. I would bet anything. [1:16:13] I don't think that's a daring bet. He absolutely has it. He's going to be a star. There's a world in which – this was a popular debate question as me and everyone at the Combine was – [1:16:22] best player from that draft in five years and 10 years is it automatically cooper or is it harper those were the two automatic no i think people would defer to the size that cooper has but i think harper being the best player in the draft is in play and by the way all the love harper's getting is incredible like he's incredible and the genobley comparisons they're lefties they come off the bench nobody's mentoring him it's an amazing story he has totally stepped up in the playoffs [1:16:52] 44% on three and just being a gigantic pain in the ass to everyone at every position on defense. And he's going to guard SGA a lot. And like, I just can't, I just can't wait for that. What a show that's going to be. I had castle as the next legacy guy. I wrote down, [1:17:07] horrific haunting of the 2024 top three draft. Oh my God. What is sliding horrific at this point to read shepherd stuff. I mean, for teams that have all of them, I had them first, but, [1:17:19] For teams that have massively high stakes, like are ready to win big right now, the Rockets and the Spurs, the Spurs didn't quite know that they were going to be ready this fast. Like that's a huge sliding doors moment in like the coming history of the West.

[1:17:33] Brutal. Cornette and Barnes. I was going to say, when are we going to get to Cornette's second title? When is that coming up? And Barnes. How about Barnes? [1:17:45] Darren Fox escaped from Sacramento. [1:17:48] This guy was playing on the Vivek Runadav Kings 18 months ago and now is in the best series in 10 years. I just watched the Jailblazers documentary on Netflix. Escape from Sacramento sounds like the next Netflix or Amazon basketball mini doc. [1:18:06] Mitch Johnson versus Dagnall, the most boring, great coach matchup in NBA history. [1:18:12] Sure. Can anyone name three things about either of these guys? [1:18:16] Mitch Johnson went to Stanford and Mark Dagnall coached the Tulsa Blue. Leventer, Massachusetts. I know that. [1:18:23] - Mitch Johnson, son of John Johnson. [1:18:26] NBA champ Seattle. [1:18:27] Um, [1:18:28] Ended up on the Celtics in 1976, and something got screwed up. And I can't remember what happened. The trade got voided or the signing, something weird. And they actually had to trade them again to Seattle. [1:18:39] But during that brief time, [1:18:41] Looked at my mom and dad's condo, came into the condo because we were selling the condo, moving to another house. And John Johnson, new member of the Celtic, walked through... [1:18:52] The condo and six-year-old me almost had a heart attack or seven-year-old me, however old I was. [1:18:56] that's my most exciting Mitch Johnson story for you that's a lot of information about Mitch Johnson's dad [1:19:03] How long could somebody spend with Mitch Johnson and Dagnall together drinking beers before something fun would happen? Two hours? No, I bet not that long. Because the Levinster is going to come out of Dagnall at some point. You get a couple people, a couple beers in, it becomes a fun time. One of my college roommates was from Levinster, Chuck LaPasta.

[1:19:23] La Pasta? [1:19:24] Chuck LaPasta. All right. Shout out, Chuck. And then last one for me for Legacy Check. [1:19:31] Adam Silver. [1:19:33] The Spurs Knicks series is sitting right there. This is your biggest rating series since 2016. [1:19:40] Wemby versus the Knicks. [1:19:42] Pull some strings. Remember when the Spurs were the boring killers of ratings, even when they were like, yeah, basketball team. And now they have freaking like nobody can take their eyes off this dude. People who know nothing about the NBA are asking about him and watching these games. And by the way, we've barely scratched the surface on just how awesome this series is. [1:20:03] Um, [1:20:04] could be. I mean, we were texting, like, I looked it up because I'm like, man, the Spurs, [1:20:09] every loss they've had in the playoffs has been like, Wemby got a concussion. No, they have three Astros losses. Wemby got ejected. And I looked it up in the last, since February 1st, [1:20:20] And look, everything says, [1:20:22] the Thunder should win, right? It's experience versus youth. The Spurs haven't taken their lumps, back-to-back champs, number one seed, all of that stuff. And their record's incredible. And it's absolutely terrifying to not pick the Spurs because since February 1st, the Spurs are 37-3. [1:20:38] Playoffs in regular season when Wemby plays at least 15 minutes in a game. 37-3 in half a season. They just don't lose when he plays... [1:20:47] a real game. They don't lose any games anymore. It feels like they're just up 20 all the time, but you could say the same about OKC. Yeah.

[1:20:55] I'm picking the Spurs. [1:20:57] Okay. [1:20:58] Thank you. [1:20:59] They are... What is their... [1:21:03] What are the odds for this right now? Let's see. [1:21:06] So they are... [1:21:09] Plus 220 for the series. I'm taking it. [1:21:12] Thank you. [1:21:12] Um, [1:21:14] I would do Spurs in five games. [1:21:16] 50 to one or Spurs and six plus 5550 for value. These are bets. Are you just picking them to win the series? No, I'm picking the Spurs to win. I'm just saying that the value I like are those two. [1:21:28] I think asking the Spurs to win a game seven with how young their team is in OKC is a little ambitious. I think it has to be in six. I like... [1:21:36] Van Gundy mentioned it today. It's a great point. [1:21:39] I thought Van Gundy's been really good the whole playoff. Shout out to him. [1:21:43] Two-man booth, clearly his destiny for broadcasting. Three-man, didn't like him. Two-man, great. [1:21:49] Made a great point about the rest of this thing. We see this every year. [1:21:53] We always forget the team that's been playing for, [1:21:56] And is in the groove and... [1:21:58] can just go from one series. They always have an advantage in game one over the team that hasn't played. So I think the Spurs... [1:22:06] I really think they actually have to win game one. [1:22:09] to win the series. [1:22:11] as goofy as that sounds. And I think they are going to win game one. [1:22:15] And, uh, [1:22:16] So that one on FanDuel, Spurs to win game one in the series is plus 450. So I like that bet too. But [1:22:23] I think the Spurs are going to win, Zach. [1:22:25] I just think they've caught lightning in a bottle and this feels like 77 Blazers to me. I'm tired of thinking about

[1:22:32] the teams from the past and how you got to learn and take your lumps. And I just don't think it matters. They have a seven foot seven guy who's out of control and a bunch of pit bulls. And they absolutely – [1:22:42] struck oil with the still and Harper thing like this is to get those three guys and back-to-back drafts this is the kind of fluke you need to win a title when your best guys are 22 21 and 20. [1:22:53] I think they're going to win. [1:22:55] I said it on Christmas. The Spurs can win the championship. And they absolutely can win the championship. [1:23:01] Um, [1:23:03] Oh, and I forgot one more thing in my pick. Okay. The Jalen Williams thing is, I know he's going to be back and they feel good about it, but I think it's a weird variable. [1:23:12] to introduce into the biggest series of the year. [1:23:16] And I don't think it's going to be seamless. And I do think OKC has too many guys. [1:23:21] I don't know about all the roles with all those guys. And they can, I know they have great chemistry and all that stuff, but [1:23:27] I don't even think they know who their best five to seven guys are. Whereas I think San Antonio knows. I think they know exactly who they are. [1:23:34] What lineups work and don't work for them? And I just think they're going to win. [1:23:39] these are all great reasons to pick the Spurs. You don't even need great reasons to pick the Spurs. They won 60 whatever games, 37 and three in their last 40 games when Wemby plays more than 15 minutes. I mean, it's an unimpeachable pick. They can absolutely win the title. I'm going to pick the Thunder in seven. [1:23:56] I respect it. The Jalen Williams thing is not, [1:23:58] a worry to me other than is he going to get re-injured again?

[1:24:02] I think he probably could have come back earlier had they felt, [1:24:06] any kind of pressure at all from either the sons or the Lakers and they got to sit them out for a long time. Um, [1:24:13] I do, I still will [1:24:14] like defer a little bit to the experience factor and having been through these moments of like big [1:24:20] total stress although the Spurs seem completely carefree to the point that Wemby was like yeah I'll kick a game by elbowing Nas Reid in the head like I don't really care we'll lose this one we're gonna be fine I just want to elbow Nas Reid in the head because I'm fucking annoyed at everything yeah yeah [1:24:33] Uh, and I look, they have a lot of guys. I think, [1:24:38] They have a ton of continuity, so I don't think reintroducing J-Dub is going to be that big of a deal. [1:24:43] And they're just going to have to make some decisions. Maybe it's a big versus small decision. Maybe it's like not an Isaiah Joe series. Maybe it's whatever. They've already done it with Aaron Wiggins, too. [1:24:52] And whatever 37 and three, you can make, there's a similar record sitting out there for Oklahoma city. And it's last like 40 games with Shay or something like that. Um, [1:25:02] It's scary. This is what the Spurs did to them in the regular season was legit. I went back and watched all the film. You can definitely see Shay looking uncomfortable, looking like this is my pet. [1:25:15] This is my pet jump shot. [1:25:17] This is a pet move I do every game. And I don't have it anywhere. But the guy on me is a pretty good defender. And, like, I see the giant arm there. And I know he can jump really far and get to – and, like, you would see him pull out of shots that he makes in his sweep. But I think –

[1:25:35] Look, these are two awesome teams. I think Oklahoma City has home court advantage. They're more experienced. And I do think they probably have a little bit of an extra gear that they've been waiting and saving and reserved for a series like this. So I'm going to defer to the champs and pick Thunder in seven. I totally respect it. And my second, as long as we're being full disclosure, my second backup pick would be Thunder in six. This is not a case where I'm picking Thunder in seven, but it's wishy-washy and it's 50-50. I'm picking the Thunder to win the series. [1:26:05] six, [1:26:06] Maybe Spurs in six is the third most likely outcome, but I'm going Thunder. [1:26:11] We both agree long series. Six games is plus 210 on Fando and plus 220 is seven games. [1:26:18] And that's another way to do it. You can just bet both. What's sweet plus 1200 or something like that. Oh my God. [1:26:23] Um... [1:26:25] Spurs sweep is 25 to 1. [1:26:28] Thunder sweep is plus 550. I just don't see it. Ooh, that's... [1:26:33] A little lower than I would have expected. [1:26:36] OKC in five is plus two ninety. [1:26:38] Okay, saying six is plus 470. [1:26:42] It's pretty strong, actually. [1:26:44] Um, [1:26:46] Can I just give Mitch Johnson a little love for this? [1:26:49] Yeah. [1:26:51] I mentioned how [1:26:52] Like, [1:26:53] Teams have obviously... [1:26:55] All season gone back and forth with putting their centers not on a webby. [1:26:59] And Oklahoma City has done that quite a bit. [1:27:01] And Castle is now like the guy that they try to do this with. And Castle has just been like, you think this works? Like, this isn't going to work. How about I just shoot 45% from three? And when I'm not doing that, how about I just barrel to the rim with all the space you're giving me? And I'll score 32 points in an elimination game. But he's been the guy that like Klingon guarded Castle and on and on.

[1:27:21] Um, [1:27:23] Mid-season season. [1:27:24] Moving Harrison Barnes to the bench in favor of Julian Champagny. [1:27:29] I mean, it's one of the most important midseason adjustments that coaches made in a long time. It completely changed the Spurs because Harrison Barnes was the safest guy to put your center on. And Mitch Johnson had to go to Harrison Barnes, who was having a nice year and making a ton of corner threes, but starting to slow down. Be like, hey, man. [1:27:46] and is a bigger, better defender than Julian Champagne, bigger for sure, better in certain situations, and say, we're going to start this relatively unproven shooter situation. [1:27:57] over you because we just have to maximize Wemby and you're, you're too safe of a hiding spot for these other centers. They can roam off you. They don't have to guard him. And our goal just has to be, [1:28:08] We're going to make it as hard as possible for you to finagle the matchups with where your center is on the floor. And like, [1:28:14] It's Julian Champagny. It's not like some like 10 year veteran with a track record and Harrison Barnes ate it and he took it and he remained productive. And now he's barely playing because that's what happens in the playoffs. And it worked. And it was like not a gutsy move, but it was like a it was a big like seismic shift in how the Spurs are guarded, I think. [1:28:35] It's a good one. [1:28:37] Um, [1:28:39] Minnesota Quick, this is another thing for my San Antonio case. [1:28:43] I think Minnesota was really good. And I think San Antonio just kind of broke them as the series went along, specifically Randall. [1:28:50] who just his brain broke during that series. So rough playoffs. Edwards wasn't 100%. They used some stuff against Minnesota.

[1:28:58] Um, [1:28:59] Obviously, they were relying on Conley a little too much. [1:29:03] Go Bear! [1:29:05] was, [1:29:06] eradicated in that series, but I actually thought it was a more impressive six-game play. [1:29:12] Because they really should have just swept them. You know? [1:29:15] When he gets kicked out of the one game, I don't know. That game one, looking back, if Champagny just hits the three, maybe they win that. But I really like that Minnesota team. [1:29:26] Which brings me to a what do you do with them? [1:29:31] Minnesota. [1:29:32] Randall has 36 this year or this upcoming year and 33 the next year. [1:29:37] Go Bears 36 and 38. They asked him to figure out Ayo. [1:29:41] And DiVincenzo is 12.5 expiring next year. I don't think Edwards or McDaniels goes anywhere. Do you buy anything that this team got a little screwed up? [1:29:51] holistically when everybody was getting shot for three minutes there when they thought they had a chance to get Giannis. [1:29:57] Um, [1:29:58] Not really, because you didn't hear a lot of that when they were kicking the shit out of the Nuggets in the first round. It wasn't a problem then against a team with one of the two or three best players, minimum two best players in the world. When you lose... [1:30:12] then it becomes a problem all of a sudden. But against that team, it was a problem. What's a problem is, Julius Randle's been in the playoffs four times in his career, and three of them have been complete disasters. And one of them last year was... [1:30:26] We thought... [1:30:27] Okay, got over the playoff hump after just, I think he came into last year shooting like 30% for his career in the playoffs and had a great playoffs. And he reverted right back.

[1:30:36] to what he had been in the first two runs of the playoffs. Is that because of the trade stuff? I don't really buy that. I think what really submarine them was Anthony Edwards was at 100%. Io was at 100%. DiVincenzo tore his Achilles, and they stopped playing Bones Highland. They just kind of ran out of guys. And then Gobert had four points combined in the last two games of the series. I think it's a good showing for them with all that injury stuff to take two off the Spurs I think is a perfectly fine game. [1:31:04] Showing. Doesn't feel good. So they can... [1:31:06] They can put together Rando and DiFincenzo's expiring. He's not going to play next year. If he plays, he won't be back till April. [1:31:13] And you could take back somebody else's big money problem if you want. [1:31:18] You could be like, [1:31:20] All right, we'll take... [1:31:22] Zach Levine's last year. Why is that? Why? What is that doing for me? I'm just I'm just. [1:31:27] Pointing out, [1:31:28] They could put those contracts together if they wanted to change – [1:31:32] Something. [1:31:33] They can think about something like that. [1:31:36] Somebody's big expiring. [1:31:38] Um, [1:31:39] which would give them more trade flexibility in December, January, February, maybe than what they have. [1:31:45] Um, [1:31:47] I don't know what you do about Gobert. [1:31:49] after that Spurs series. [1:31:53] And who knows? It might be a get over the hump thing like we talked about earlier where they had their run and this is kind of where they are. And now they're [1:32:01] clearly just going to be behind San Antonio and OKC for the rest of the decade. And that's where we are. You know what, though? I get again, like,

[1:32:07] This is a franchise that [1:32:09] From the last couple years of Garnett. [1:32:12] to the one Jimmy Butler year just sucked, sucked continuously and sucked in every possible fashion. I mean, like a little flirting with like, we're all, we're 500 with Ricky Rubio and Kevin Love. We're like a fun team to watch, Nicola Pekovic. But like, they just weren't good. They did nothing in the playoffs. They had the one Butler year, they lose in the first round. Bad injury luck with Rubio, bad injury luck without Jefferson. And just like everything goes wrong. And then the Butler thing goes haywire. And then you're back, not quite to square one, but back to like, we got to figure out what the hell we're doing with this [1:32:42] Finals and a conference semifinal where you win two games off Victor women. I'm like, this is just indisputably an awesome three years for the Minnesota, like all of their fans. [1:32:51] are elated by everything that's happened. With all that said, you can't bring Randall back. [1:32:56] Well, what are you going to do? You have to figure out how to trade him for somebody else. Well, this was always the mystery of like, they're in Anyanis. They're in Anyanis. They're one of the teams that's like in last 72 hours still in contact with Milwaukee. And I never got how... [1:33:12] that was going to happen because they don't have any, [1:33:14] They have very minimal to no first round picks to trade. [1:33:18] I never believed it. I never understood how they were getting him. But I believe... But McDaniels would have had to have been in the trade for them to have any sort of assets to then give up for Giannis, I think. Well, yeah. I don't know. Again, I don't know how. But yes, if there's a person on their team who's getting you multiple good first-round picks, that's who it is. And...

[1:33:39] You know, I just don't know how they're going to do it. But if they were trying then, they'll surely try again. [1:34:09] plus.com to see how accounting turns on the possibilities. [1:34:14] So good, so good, so good. New markdowns up to 70% off are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Stock up and stay big on shoes, tops, dresses, accessories, and more must-haves for summer. Join the Nordi Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. [1:34:41] Thank you. [1:34:42] Thank you. [1:34:42] God, I hate bringing this up. [1:34:46] Can we talk about Giannis' trade value for a second? This is your favorite... [1:34:51] One of your favorite topics. So go ahead. [1:34:53] Well, we're going to be talking about it for the next four to five weeks. He was in the news this week because Miles Turner gave that interview talking about. That was... [1:35:01] That was... [1:35:02] Pretty, I have no problem saying this because he's not going to be on my team next year. So here's some tea. [1:35:09] I'm going to spell.

[1:35:10] Um, [1:35:11] Or it's just like, Hey man, they paid me $25 million a year where I didn't have a lot, a lot of other options. I'm just happy as a clam. This is all great for me. I know he's stunk this year though. Um, [1:35:22] I can't really find the team for Giannis. [1:35:25] I thought this was going to be a lot easier. Last year, if we were doing this a year ago, I think we had multiple suitors [1:35:31] And, uh, [1:35:33] Just kind of talking to people and hearing from different people about this. [1:35:38] I'm really surprised how lukewarm the market is for him. [1:35:41] I don't think people feel like, [1:35:43] This is a home run. This will change my franchise. [1:35:47] I will now have a chance to win the title. It was telling that San Antonio and OKC wanted no part of them when they had the most assets. [1:35:53] It seems to me that the team that would trade for Giannis... [1:35:57] would be a team that needs to take a little bit of a Hail Mary as a really short window. [1:36:04] And that rules out a lot of teams. [1:36:06] I, [1:36:07] you know, my dad and I have kind of landed the, we hope it's not the Celtics. That's where I've landed after looking at this from every direction. I don't, [1:36:15] Simmons colon awful announcing tomorrow. Simmons. Oh, Jesus. I don't want Giannis in Boston. Get that guy fucking out of here. [1:36:25] I don't know. I went through all this stuff, what, two months ago about the year 14 and after big guys and how... [1:36:31] how kind of creepy the stats were and how few guys even were able to put up 2010s and [1:36:37] The injury history hit in the last five years and,

[1:36:41] It just doesn't, something's just telling me to stay away. [1:36:45] And I know some teams will talk themselves into it, but I just don't know what he's worth. I don't, [1:36:50] Thank you. [1:36:50] I can't figure it out. So what have your, as you talk to people in the league, what are you hearing? So I mentioned this last week when I got back from the combine that it, like the thing comes out from Shams that the Bucks are quote, open for business, which we already knew that they're going to be open for business. Jimmy Haslam came out and said, we're going to be open for business. We want to do it before the draft if we're not going to sign him or if he's not going to sign, whatever. And it just like, there's a, it's a, it's an interesting question. [1:37:17] paradox because there's a general, I mean, everyone was in Chicago. I saw a million people. Yeah. There's a, there's a general assumption that he will get traded because that's just what happens. Right. Like when the toothpaste is this far out of the tube. Yeah. And yet no one can really identify the team that, that fits the right, the right package of like, we have stuff, [1:37:38] a lot of stuff that's going to entice Milwaukee and we're going to be good enough to justify it. [1:37:42] sending out all that stuff when Giannis is here. [1:37:45] And I said this, I had, uh, [1:37:47] I met up with a... [1:37:49] a very high-powered agent who knows things, and we were just shooting the shit. And I said, so what's your bet on Giannis? And he said, I'm just... [1:37:57] I'm going no trade. I'm in the contrarian zone. I think I'm going no trade. I think he's going to be on the box. And I was like, really? Why? He's like, I just don't know what the team is. Who's the team? Go through all the teams. Find the team. And it was like a fairly convincing argument that I still, but didn't sway me. Like, I think he's going to get traded still. And that's why I said after all that, if I just had to bet, if you made me like pick a team that is, if I just had to guess what?

[1:38:24] If he's traded, whereas he traded, I would put Miami... [1:38:27] as my number one guest team because they fit the Hail Mary thing you just said, because they have just enough stuff that if they threw it all together, the Bucks could sell it as like, hey, we got we got a lot and maybe we can reflip this one guy we got and like get another thing. And but I don't feel great about that package, whatever it is, if I'm Milwaukee. [1:38:47] Portland would be the other team, and I don't even know if he'd want to go there. The other side— The good thing is, at least he's not a two-way player, so he can travel to all the games. Right. [1:38:56] I think he's fixing that though, Dundon. He didn't, [1:38:59] He went on game over with Richard Max and said he thought it was more like hockey. I saw that. I saw that. I didn't realize all the players went to the games. Yeah. Well, he learned. He learned a valuable lesson. [1:39:10] Some of the stuff we keep hearing, everybody seems terrified about the injury history and the miles on the body. [1:39:17] Right. Using almost like a running back in football or a car that has a ton of miles on it that's gone cross country. Just wondering if I get Giannis, how many years left am I actually getting? [1:39:29] There's also the stylistic thing. [1:39:32] If you already have a best player on your team, how is that person going to fit with Jan as a guy who likes to have the ball, who likes to be at the top of the key? [1:39:39] Um, [1:39:40] How does that fit with somebody like Jason Tatum? [1:39:43] Right. And then, you know, I think everybody loves Giannis the guy. [1:39:50] I think everybody thinks he's a great guy. [1:39:52] But there's some stuff that comes with Giannis, right? He's got multiple agents involved.

[1:39:57] He's got the two brothers... [1:40:00] He's been the superstar in his own team now for 11, 12 years, probably used, accustomed to certain treatments. [1:40:09] And it's just, it's risky to... [1:40:11] Bring somebody in like that. We've seen it not work. [1:40:14] in the NBA where it's like, [1:40:16] I'm a big star. I'm walking in. This is now my new team. And sometimes it doesn't work right. Even when Dame came to Milwaukee, it was rocky there for years. [1:40:23] a year. It was a similar situation. [1:40:25] So, [1:40:26] I think we're both looking at the same team. [1:40:30] And the same kind of Hail Mary situation. Would you say... [1:40:35] Do you still expect him to be traded though? [1:40:38] I do. [1:40:39] I do too. [1:40:40] because, um, [1:40:42] Here's what I think has changed. I think it's become acrimonious with him and [1:40:47] the GM. I think him not playing at the end of last year. I, I, [1:40:50] I don't think it's... [1:40:52] on good terms. [1:40:54] I mean, the Miles Turner stuff got kind of a chuckle from people, but [1:41:01] That was real shit, man. He was basically saying the dude was never on time ever without saying who it was, but we knew who he was talking about. And like, [1:41:08] I mean, I didn't realize. Did he not say who it was? Did he just say it's the best player or whatever? Yeah, there was some dancing around, but you could tell who he was talking about. I mean, that's... And he certainly wasn't kind to Doc either. That kind of stuff annoys... [1:41:23] Whoever it is annoys players like I've heard stories about we had to hold the plane because this guy was late and everyone's grumbling because they have dinner plans when they get to the city or like the guy the guy was late for his massage table appointment and it like created this whole backup that ruined everybody's days. And when the guy if it if he's talking about you, honestly, like when you just if you're the best guy on the team and you're the franchise guy, you can't do that stuff is not.

[1:41:45] acceptable for someone. You have to be the other way. You have to be the guy who sets the standard [1:41:50] For the rest of the team. [1:41:52] Thank you. [1:41:53] There's one other team... [1:41:54] that I think we have to mention. And it ties into another theme that I've been wondering about. [1:41:59] if there's going to be punishment against the Clippers... [1:42:03] Should they be moving fast right now and trying to trade – [1:42:07] their picks and, [1:42:08] in case they're worried that they might get taken away. [1:42:11] And if you're going to do that, [1:42:13] Could you just trade the number five pick for Giannis right now? [1:42:17] And just we're trying to win a title with Kawhi and Giannis and Garland. And yeah, it's a good one. [1:42:22] They would have the cap space to do it. They could put a couple of expirings there to make it work and basically try to jumpstart if they feel like a punishment's coming. Because I think the feeling is we're going to have a verdict pretty soon. That would shock me if only because... [1:42:39] I mean, I was there when it happened, and I saw other people. They just feel like they got a new lease on life with this pick. I mean, just a new... [1:42:47] That it completely changed everything about their franchise. And it would just absolutely blow me away. [1:42:54] So who are the other Hail Mary teams then? I guess you could say if Cleveland gets annihilated by the Knicks, maybe they're in that zone. That's what I was going to say. Would you trade Mobley for Giannis straight up at this point with the injury history? [1:43:05] Because I don't think I would. [1:43:07] I don't think that's a smart move. It'd be... [1:43:10] I don't know if I would do it, honestly, but it, if, [1:43:14] like, [1:43:14] A couple of years of Mitchell plus Giannis...

[1:43:17] is interesting enough. Yeah, you're short in your two-year... Yeah, that's like a classic two-year window. Yeah. I'd be very nervous to do that. So, yeah, how the playoffs... [1:43:27] Play out is a big part of it right we haven't mentioned Houston and then you have the other kind of older Hail Mary teams who may not have enough to get it done like the Lakers and the Warriors and teams like that right but who else? [1:43:40] That's it. That's it. [1:43:42] Rockets, I mean, would you trade Shangun and another contract for Giannis and throw some picks in? I don't know if I would do that. [1:43:49] The only other one I can think of is Brooklyn. I do not, as we said before, I don't think they're keeping their sixth pick. And is it like a two-part move where move one is Giannis, move two is something else? [1:44:00] And you go in on two stars and now you're in the mix in the East. Well, that's the thing with Brooklyn is like they've been floating around the rumor mill like this with Giannis for a long time. And the question has always been like, what, who is Giannis going there to play with? [1:44:13] And given his age and his injury history, you don't get a year to be like, we'll find another guy. Like that year, you have to have your team. [1:44:19] ready to compete at the highest possible level. The sixth pick is super interesting. Like I haven't heard a lot of buzz about the Nets in the sixth pick yet, but they're just in the range where everybody's a guard and they just drafted a million guards and, and, and not all of them are put you like your guy buries is not a, is not a point guard. So maybe he would fit there, but it is an interesting place for them to land. He can't, a cup for Wagler have to, has to be six. They just have the most value and they don't need either of those guys. [1:44:44] I also think all the intel I've gotten is that they don't want to have another rebuilding year. Like they want to be good. They're tired of this.

[1:44:51] And the Nets are in a weird spot. The Psy family, who I think everybody thinks are great owners and it's like a first class team. [1:44:57] They have this awesome WNBA team situation where they sell out. [1:45:02] People love it. There's real energy in the arena. And then they have this [1:45:05] Nets team that's just punted and they're playing in the same city as a team that's about to make the finals. [1:45:10] Barring something crazy happening. So I don't see how they don't. [1:45:14] try to, [1:45:15] I had someone make the best possible pitch to me about the Nets at the sixth pick. And he was just, I don't even remember who it was. It was a front office guy on another team. He was just, he didn't know anything concrete. He was just saying, this is what they should do. He was like, I don't even care who they took in the last draft. They should take Acuff because he would just be like the ultimate, [1:45:33] draw like the hipsters would be like this kind of cool undersized guy with this cool stuff like he would just fit what they just give him a buzz give him some hipster like street cred like he would be he was just like fuck all the guys they just picked maybe they'll develop maybe they won't they should take a cuff no matter what if he's still there I agree with that [1:45:51] Because he has real Kyrie potential and you have to investigate it, but. [1:45:56] Yeah, so if we're talking... [1:45:57] The draft's still five weeks away, but I do feel like we're in range now. It's May 17th. [1:46:02] The draft is in five weeks. [1:46:05] And I think some trade stuff is starting. [1:46:08] For sure. The Celtics are certainly looking at it. I think the Celtics... [1:46:13] Whatever, I've talked about this already, but whatever they decided to do with Jalen, I think would be... [1:46:18] I don't think it's a Giannis move. I think it's more of a, [1:46:21] Can we get two pieces for Jalen, some salary cap relief, and maybe somebody that makes less money than him two years from now?

[1:46:28] type of thing. But I would say they're way more likely to keep him than trade him. [1:46:33] I do think it's more likely that he's on the team. [1:46:38] next year than not. [1:46:39] Um, [1:46:41] I don't know anything more than that. We'll see. It's a weird situation. It's past midnight your time, and you have to get up early tomorrow, so we have to go. Anything else? Did we cover everything? I think we covered everything. What was the best thing you heard in Chicago that you didn't talk about on your podcast? Oh, God. [1:46:56] I talked about a lot of it on my podcast. Um, [1:46:59] Seems like a lot of people were there. [1:47:01] It was crowded. It was, it was, uh, everyone's always there. It's one of the greats, like Vegas, but in a shorter period of time, uh, and in a normal city. [1:47:08] and not Vegas, which I do like Vegas a lot, actually. But I'll have to think about that. I have nothing... [1:47:15] All right, so we have... [1:47:17] We have Nick's. [1:47:19] And we have Spurs. I have the Spurs. You have OKC. And we both have Knicks. Yeah. [1:47:24] Okay. [1:47:25] Um, thanks to Gajal and Eduardo. Thanks to Zach Lowe as well. Don't forget new rewatchables for me tomorrow. [1:47:32] Borat. Very nice. Really fun one. And then I'll be back on Tuesday night. Zach's going to have a new podcast on Tuesday morning. [1:47:40] After game one. [1:47:42] Spurs Thunder, which should be an all-timer. Zach, great to see you as always. It's going to be a blast. Thanks for having me.

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