The San Ysidro McDonald's Massacre

[00:00] Cape Fear is a new series now streaming on Apple TV. This 10-episode mystery thriller is executive produced by Martin Scorsese and stars Academy Award winner Javier Bardem, Academy Award nominee Amy Adams, and Emmy nominee Patrick Wilson. [00:15] When convicted murderer Max Cady is released from prison, he begins infiltrating the family of the married attorneys who helped put him behind bars. [00:24] Every good detective needs a partner to support them on important cases. Think of a State Farm agent like your sidekick, there to help you along the way in your search for coverage. State Farm can help you choose the coverage you need, whether it's for your home, car, boat, or even RV. With so many options, it's nice knowing you have help finding what fits for you so you can get back to solving all of life's bigger cases. Go to statefarm.com or [00:54] neighbor, State Farm is there. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro [01:24] terms at mintmobile.com. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Pollen Morbid.

[01:43] Oh my god, pollen is destroying everybody's lives over here. Is pollen eating your insides alive? [01:54] Everybody shoots hands in the air. Pollen is... [01:58] rough right now. We had an air quality alert yesterday that was like, hey, you should probably stay inside. I'm getting murdered by pollen. Yeah, it's bad. It's really, really bad. I've never... [02:08] had allergies this bad in my life. I've never had allergies, period, really. And I do be having, not only allergies, but guess what? I have asthma. Yeah. All of a sudden, the doctor said, honey, [02:22] you have asthma. And I said, I haven't had asthma since I was a child. I thought it went away. They said, no. He said, it doesn't quite work like that. So Alina is taking one for the team. And she took the up for me. Because I'm hacking up a lung. [02:39] I'm out of breath. Yeah. There was no way I was going to make her talk for an entire hour or so, however long this will be. Honestly, you guys wouldn't have wanted to hear it. Yeah. We don't need her hacking all over, you know? I don't want to hack on you and what you're going through with Pauline already. Yeah, you know? But I do have something for you. Yeah. Because it's my birthday today, if you're listening. Yay! It's like in a couple days from now. But if you're listening when this comes out, it'll be Ash's birthday. [03:09] we have a sale for you on the morbid merch store, um, which is at serious. Um, let me actually give you the actual website.

[03:18] Okay, so it's literally just SiriusXMStore. And then there's another one for if you don't live in this country, and that's in our Instagram bio. But if you use the code ASHSALE, A-S-H, SALE, then you can get 25% off your order. Yay, do it. Which is really fun. We have a couple new things in the store. We have the candle, which smells so fucking good. It does. We picked the scent specifically. We did. [03:48] about. We have the Nicholas shirt. If you're a Nicholas supporter, I love the Nicholas shirt. I've also seen a lot of you coming around on Nicholas. I have too. And it warms my heart. Yeah, it really does. And this shirt is how you can show your support. Show your support for for good old Saint Nick. Yeah. Who is not Saint Nick, but he's our Nick. He's our Saint Nick. We need to post that video from when we unpacked the printer. Oh, yeah. Because I think I think we can speed it up a little bit. Yeah. [04:18] Nicholas visited us. Yeah, I think Nicholas was helping me put away [04:22] stuff from the printer that I was unboxing. And he was like, you have more room in this box. Let me push this stuff down for you. Because I was sitting there just watching as all of the packing stuff was being slowly pushed down. And it was all like, like, obviously things rustle when you put them back in a box. So at first we were like, okay, maybe it's just that. [04:41] But then it continued for three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. [04:44] And, like, there was, like, one specific part in the video where it just, like, boom. Yeah, just pushes down. Really pushes down, like, aggressively. So I'm going to post the sped-up version of that. It was a little strange. Yeah. A little strange. Paranormal, if you will. But, yeah, use that code, ASHSALE. Hell yeah. 25% off. That's a good deal. It's pretty sick. So if you were waiting, this is your time. It's almost like I'm turning 25. Almost, but you're not. I'm not. I'm not. Look at her. Now she's calling me old. I was going to say, you've had fun.

[05:14] Ash is the big 3-0, everybody. It's 5'20". I am. I'm having a funeral for my 20s. [05:22] Honestly, 30s are when things get awesome. I'm so ready to leave my 20s in the dust. A lot of great things happened in the later years of my 20s, but the early to mid of my 20s, [05:34] Quite mid. Quite mid, if you will. Oh, well... [05:39] We have today... [05:42] This was Ash's case at first, so I got the pleasure of reading this and going, oh. I said, here, I did half of this. I'll give you the other half. Yeah, so I read through this and said, oh my. Yeah, I'm sorry. We're covering the San Ysidro McDonald's massacre today. This is a really, really brutal case. Yeah, I would like to give a big, big trigger warning right off the bat. [06:12] me explaining everyone's injuries or anything like that. This is a mass shooting. [06:16] That can be very triggering for people. I completely understand if this episode is one you say, hey, I'll see you on Thursday. Totally. Totally get it. But again, I'm not going to get, [06:26] crazy with my descriptions, but this is [06:30] rough. It is. And it's scary. And it's horrific. And he's a monster. And... [06:36] uh it's a really rough one so i just i need you to know that right out the bat uh right out the gate that that this is rough and it's a mass shooting so again if that is something that you are like this is just not one of the ones that i can do we totally understand yeah we totally get it so like we'll see you there to say if that's the case we'll miss you we get it

[06:55] But it is a story that needs to be told because, one, these people lost their lives. Yeah. These innocent people who were... [07:01] just going to McDonald's. Well, and there was just so many warning signs in this case from the time that Jim, who is the mass murderer, Jim Huberty, just so many signs from the time that he was a small child. Like, he should have received help. Yeah. Like, I don't know exactly what help or what it would have done, but he needed something. He needed something. Yeah. And also, coincidentally, [07:31] This kind of fits really perfect in this because there were several times that people around him said, yeah, it was so crazy. Yeah. [07:39] He said he was going to kill everybody and he couldn't wait to shoot things into people's flesh. He's a weird guy. He constantly talked about destroying people's bodies. I don't know. [07:51] Sometimes it's okay to reach out and say, hey, this person is speaking in a way that makes me think he might hurt someone. It's okay. You can do it anonymously. This was in the 80s. [08:03] you know, growing up in the 70s and stuff, things were a little different for sure. Like it was not [08:08] people they were not out here getting help for especially men's mental health no he grew up like in the midwest which obviously like is a totally different culture there were factors here that for sure we can look back with the hindsight of 2026 and say why didn't anybody do anything and things were different so we do have to use those lenses to look at it yeah but now in 2026 the

[08:29] If someone around you... [08:31] is making these kind of statements or acting these kind of ways. You've got to call someone. [08:35] You see something, say something. It's like you can do it anonymously, but just... [08:41] Whenever you can, try to... Because you can avoid catastrophes like this. And also, like, that person needs help. Yeah, like, he needed to be... This man needed to be... He's, like, a bad person at his core. Well, that's the thing. He's, like, a mentally ill man at his core. He's also racist. Yeah. He's also... [09:01] he beats his own children. Like he's an abuser. He beats his wife. Like, [09:06] He's a, at his core, Jim Puberty is an evil piece of shit. [09:11] And that's the thing that I think we all need to realize is you can be two things. Two things can be true at once. Absolutely. He can be mentally ill and he can also be a really fucking bad person. Not everybody who's mentally ill is a really great person and they just suffer from this thing. Of course, there are plenty of people who are really good people, who are kind and good people and suffer from mental illness and do things they normally wouldn't have done and don't want to do. That is 100% often the case, to be honest. [09:41] violently mentally ill and does need extensive help, but is also just a really bad person at their core and would have done something bad regardless of the mental illness possibly. So Jim Huberty, to me, falls into that category. He's just a bad person. He's not nice. He's violent to children. He's violent to women. He's violent to men. He's horrible. And he says horrible things. He...

[10:06] He's just not... Nobody wanted to be around him. Like, he just... Yeah. And he seemed like he was that way from pretty young. So... [10:13] Yeah, so that is definitely one of those situations here. And again, this is a tough one, but we're going to get into it. All right, so everybody... [10:21] Mark your timers. Yep. Here we are. On the evening of July 15th, 1984, James Huberty and his wife, Etna, were sitting on the couch watching TV when James, who was better known as Jim, [10:34] casually mentioned that he thought he was experiencing symptoms of mental illness. Edna had long suspected that something was going on with Jim. He had violent mood swings. He couldn't regulate his emotions at all. He had a crazy explosive temper. He was very violent. He was also racist. And that was the first time she'd ever heard him acknowledge his struggles pretty directly. I do wonder what all of a sudden made him realize that something was off. [11:04] Because like we said in the beginning, for so much of his life... [11:07] it was like that. I'm like, he was just off the rails for his whole life. So I don't know what made him just go. [11:13] I think I need help. [11:14] I wonder if he knew... [11:17] I mean... [11:18] I think he did. At this point, I think he said... [11:21] I'm going to do something real bad. Yeah. If I, and maybe there was a small part of him that was like, I should probably try to stop myself. And I wonder if he also was looking at this as, [11:32] Okay, if they accept me, [11:34] Because he does call for help. If they accept this and they help me, then...

[11:39] then that's how it's supposed to be. But if they decide not, then they are proving everything that I believe about the government, about society, about human beings. And then they deserve it. I think that's exactly what his mindset was. [11:53] And this is another this mental health help back then. [11:58] Pretty bad. Pretty bad. And even now, we always need to get better. So this is a good little thing about that. So yeah, so Edna became even more hopeful a few days later when she noticed him on the phone with a local mental health center. So she was like, what are you doing? And he said he had called to make an appointment. And at the time, there was no one available to take his call. [12:19] which already you're like, not good. What do you mean? You know he called during lunch on purpose. Yeah, exactly. But the receptionist at the center took his information and said someone would get back to him within a few hours. [12:31] Now, when he spoke to the receptionist, he was polite. He was calm. He sounded composed. So there was no reason for them to suspect this is back then that he was in crisis. [12:42] Now we know now that someone in crisis is not always screaming and yelling and crying. They are not always saying something crazy or quote unquote crazy that you think is going to like... [12:53] really cause some damage. Like, I think now we're a lot more well-versed on the idea that somebody in crisis is not always the typical... [13:00] crisis that you're thinking in your mind. But [13:04] According to them, he didn't say anything to indicate that he was, so the call was logged as non-crisis. Non-crisis calls were returned in the order they received, typically within 48 hours.

[13:15] Unfortunately, the receptionist also misheard his name when he gave his last name, and she wrote it down as Schuberty. [13:23] Now, even more unfortunate, by the time his message came up in the queue to be returned, it was too late. [13:29] James Huberti had already killed 21 people and was killed by the San Diego police sniper's bullet. [13:35] So... [13:37] Thank you. [13:37] James Huberti's shocking killing spree and violent death was definitely just the period on a life filled with a lot of chaos and a lot of... [13:46] A lot of, like we were saying, times when someone should have stepped in. Warning signs. He was born October 11th, 1942 in Canton, Ohio. He was the second of two children born to Earl and Eichel. Just a few years later, when he was three years old, Jim contracted polio. Yeah, yeah. [14:05] and had to wear leather and metal braces for a long period of time. I mean, thanks to the braces, he was able to walk again, but they caused him to have a different walk than he might have had before. And according to one of his primary school teachers, that alone was enough to make him the target for bullies, and the other children made fun of him and were just... Kids suck. Yeah, like, get it together, and teach your kids not to be assholes. How are you making fun of somebody with polio? Thank God. If I ever found out my kids were making fun of someone for the way they walked, we'd have a talk. [14:35] When Jim was seven years old, his father bought a 155 acre farm in Mount Eaton. That was about 20 miles away from Canton. And he moved almost the whole family. Almost. Jim's mother...

[14:48] was pretty resistant to the idea from the start and just refused to move with her family. [14:53] Which is wild. Instead, she packed her bags, headed west, and joined a Pentecostal missionary group, abandoning her entire family. Yeah, great. So obviously this was extremely hard on Jim and his sister Ruth. And he would like... [15:06] like his father would just find him like crying. [15:09] like at various times all over the property yeah just all over the property which is really like obviously you can feel bad for the kid version of him that's awful yeah you had your mom for seven years of your life and then she's like actually i'm gonna go because she's like i don't feel like moving [15:21] Oh, okay. Cool. Now at school, Jim was taunted and mistreated by, you know, his by peers from everything from his appearance, the way he walked, to the fact that his mother abandoned him. [15:33] Like, imagine people making fun of you because you were abandoned as a child. [15:39] What about that is funny? I don't know... [15:43] my brain can't wrap around it it really literally can't what's it also just like what's the joke that's what is the joke lol your mom left and it's like [15:52] Yeah. Okay. That's funny to you? What is the joke? Like, I don't understand what the... [15:58] Like, it's so weird to me. It's so fucked up. So he was unable to make friends a lot of the time. He spent a lot of his time alone or with the family dog, just developing a really sullen and angry temperament. Yeah, I feel like for children to be alone and isolated for too long. And being mistreated by their peers. At the same time is just truly a recipe for disaster. Especially when nothing happens.

[16:21] else is being done. And then you have like abandonment from a mom. [16:26] can fuck a kid up. Yeah, it's true. So just... [16:30] Lots of little ingredients here. [16:42] obsessively cultivating his own collection. The word obsessive, it's like [16:47] That doesn't even begin to describe it. He was. Yeah. He was a gun. Yeah, he literally was. Now, years later, his former co-workers in Ohio would describe him to a reporter as fanatical. [16:58] That's not a good way to be with one supervisor saying he had a lot of guns and he always said that he wanted to kill a lot of people. [17:06] If somebody is always saying that they want to kill a lot of people... [17:12] you have a problem because like also what was your response to that okay jim like also this whole case had me wondering [17:23] Does any place that he works have an HR department? [17:28] I don't know if HR departments back then were just like chilling. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing. But it's like, if he's at work saying he has a lot of guns, and he really wants to kill a lot of people. [17:40] You gotta call someone. You gotta call someone. But at the time, [17:45] He was just a lonely, like, again, this was years later that that was being happening, but we're staying in the past here. Because at the time, he was just a lonely boy who had found a way to pass the time. And in a rural place like Mount Eaton, guns and shooting were not exactly uncommon. It's not like this was a weird fixation. No, hunting was like a big deal. I mean, he lives on a farm. Now, throughout his high school years, he kind of kept a low profile. He didn't join any teams or clubs. He had like a few friendships, maybe.

[18:15] enthusiastically pursuing his hobby of guns by the time he was in his late teens he had become something of like an he was like an amateur gunsmith really he learned how to make and load his own ammunition alter his weapons making small improvements to things like grip and sights scary when you know what the outcome is for sure [18:35] Now, after graduating from high school, he enrolled at Malone College, a small Quaker school in Kenton, and he studied sociology there before dropping out two years later and moving to Pennsylvania, where he went to the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. After graduating in 1963, he found work as a mortician's apprentice at a local funeral home, and during that time, he became a licensed embalmer and mortician. [19:05] to people. Yeah, you don't say. It turned out that at least on some level, Jim agreed. Because within a year of being licensed in Ohio, he'd quit the mortuary business altogether and taken a job as an assembly line worker at a local factory. [19:20] Changing careers wasn't the only big change in his life at the time, though. He'd also started dating Aetna Markland. And in 1965, they got married at Trinity Gospel Temple in Cannon, Ohio. I just wonder, like... [19:34] what their meet cute was i wonder what she saw in him right because no one liked him nobody liked him he was very miserable all the time and i also just wonder like did they get through their first date without him mentioning that he wanted to kill a lot of people that's the thing i'm like he seems like he is just you tell you see any of the people talking about him and everyone's like he was just a miserable person to be around not because he was sad all the time he was mean and angry and said

[20:04] people. He liked to talk about the different bullets and the, like, damage they inflicted on human flesh. Like... [20:11] Nobody wants to talk about that. Is it about him? [20:15] I figured this is the kind of guy that would stay alone forever. I know. But no. From the moment he first met Jim, the pastor who married the couple, David Lombardi, actually had reservations about the relationship and the marriage completely. He said he had real inner conflicts. By the time he was dating Etna, he was atheistic and blamed God for taking his mother away from him. I'd like to point out that him being... [20:39] like, leaning towards being atheist has literally nothing to do with, like... [20:44] inner conflicts of this magnitude. Yeah, I think that's important to point out. Like, you know what I mean? I think he has a lot of inner conflicts. [20:53] But I don't think him being an atheist is one of them. I think that's... [20:57] I'm like, okay. That's just a thing. Yeah. He also said that Jim was halfway intelligent, but when you dealt with him, you always felt a little uneasy about the way he harbored something inside. He was pent up. He was a loner. And he had kind of an explosive personality. Those are definitely his inner conflicts. And that's what everyone said, specifically. Explosive. Mm-hmm. [21:17] Even after marriage and buying a house, his interpersonal skills never got much better than when he was a kid. And he was still struggling to control his skills. [21:25] explosive anger. Small conflicts at work usually escalated really quickly with Jim taking out way more offense at some, you know, light things like teasing or perceived slights. Like, I don't like teasing either. I hate teasing. But like, you can't explode and go off the handle at people. No. And sometimes people are just trying to like, have a good time. Like, I don't think they were necessarily like bullying him, you know? No. And the best thing to do in those situations is to tell someone like, hey, I don't really love...

[21:53] Yeah. I don't really love being teased like that. It kind of like sets something off and they'll be like, oh shit. All right. That's how you get to know people. That's how you, and also that's how you teach people how to treat you. Yeah. Cause you, that's what you have to do. Exploding in anger at someone. Cause they do something like that. Won't get you anywhere. They're not going to learn anything except while you're an asshole. Yeah. I don't want to be around to you. And it's like, if you just, I hate teasing. So there's been times where I've had to say to people, Hey, like, I actually don't love that. Like don't poke me. And they're like, oh shit. Sorry. And then they know how to treat you. Yeah. Teach them. [22:23] Teach them, everybody. That's true. [22:24] But even people who attempted friendly conversation or like small talk found him to be very unpleasant and all described him as hostile. [22:33] His gun obsession got way worse as well. He covered his entire home in guns. His co-worker Jim Aslanes recalled no matter where he was sitting or standing in the house, he could reach over and get a gun. [22:45] To me, that's too much. That's scary to me. My personal opinion. I think that's too much. My personal thing is like, I don't have anything against guns. Like if you are somebody who responsibly uses a gun. [22:56] Oh, awesome. Good for you, man. Like, I really don't have a problem with it. If you are responsible with it, I fully support it. I don't understand having that many. [23:07] But that's just something I don't understand. I'm not saying you're a bad person for it. I just mean, I don't get it. When I also think, especially in this case, because later on he does go on to have two children, guns should not just be accessible in the home like that. You should not be able to reach anywhere and get a gun if you have kids in the house. It's just not safe. So dangerous. It's just not safe. We've seen it. And again, Jim could also usually be found sitting by the front door of his house, door open with a shotgun across his lap.

[23:37] responsible. [23:37] That's not being a responsible gun owner. It was precisely that type of bizarre, threatening behavior that he was constantly exhibiting that convinced his co-worker Jim Aslan's that he did not want to get to know him outside of work. He said it was little things like that just showed me there was something wrong with him, which is very astute. In 1972, Aetna gave birth to the couple's first child. [24:01] daughter who was followed by a second daughter two years later if anyone expected fatherhood to change or soften Jim Hubert II they were going to be sorely disappointed mm-hmm not only was he unwilling to change his increasingly confrontational and reckless behavior [24:15] Because he saw no need to set the safety on any of his guns, even with toddlers in the house. That's the kind of thing I'm saying is it's like he was a very irresponsible gun owner. Yeah, just an asshole. Yeah. Like he literally didn't care about his kids. Not at all. But he also seemed mostly uninterested in parenting altogether, which like... [24:33] Why did you have kids then? Years later, after the couple moved to San Diego, many of the neighbors would recall that while Jim seemed to have a general dislike for most people, he seemed to loathe children. [24:46] What's wrong with a big man? How do you not like kids? You don't have to be around them if you don't want to. Like, I get it. Some kids are annoying, for sure. Like, I usually only like the ones related to me. Yeah. But, like... [24:55] Kids are adorable. Come on. [24:57] I here's the thing. If people make a choice not to have kids, more power to you. Yeah, fully like, hell yeah. Well, if you're making that choice, clearly, that's the right choice for you. Because that's the choice. You're being a responsible human. And you're saying, you know what, I don't want that. You don't need to have that. I want that. Good for you. In fact, I applaud you. But when people make it their entire personality that they hate children, that's weird.

[25:21] That's weird. Because it's like, you don't need to have them. [25:25] yeah so it's not a requirement so just don't i do think like it's okay i will say i think back then it did feel like more of like a requirement like oh for sure you got married and then you had to have kids yeah and i think a lot of people feel like weird societal pressure yeah like i'm sure etna did you know yeah for sure so but still like maybe not with jim babe maybe not like jim jim doesn't seem like he's he's great here no uh and again like him less like loathing children i'm [26:06] Summer's here, and whether you're traveling, you're shuttling kids to camp, or spending long days by the pool, staying healthy and on a budget is always top of mind. That's where GoodRx can help. GoodRx helps you save up to 80% on prescriptions for you and your family, even your pets, too. [26:23] Just check GoodRx before every pharmacy run to find big savings on both brand name and generic medications. [26:29] GoodRx is free and it's easy to use. Just search for your prescription on the website or the app, compare prices, and get a free coupon to show your pharmacist. Use GoodRx to save at over 70,000 pharmacies nationwide, including Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Publix, Kroger, and many more. GoodRx is not insurance, but it works whether you have insurance or not, and it could even beat your copay price.

[26:59] I can save anything on my prescriptions and I always find a good coupon. [27:03] So save time and money at the pharmacy this summer. Go to goodrx.com slash morbid. That's goodrx.com slash morbid. [27:12] This is a paid ad by BetterHelp. There have been times in my life where I have been work, work, work and nothing else, but that simply doesn't work for me. So I feel like the older I've gotten, I've really gotten much better at taking a step back, being able to prioritize a work-life balance that works for me. [27:29] Not everybody thrives when life gets busy. You might catch yourself feeling drained, even during things that you usually enjoy, or realize that you've been pushing yourself more than you need to. It's important to take care of yourself when things get busy by resting, recharging, and saying no when you need to. [27:44] Therapy can also be a great way to get out of autopilot and get a solid reset. Therapy with BetterHelp may help you understand your needs, feel more confident setting boundaries, and create a rhythm that feels sustainable. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Just take a short questionnaire to identify your needs and preferences, and BetterHelp will handle the initial therapist matching work for you. You can also feel confident knowing that BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully qualified. [28:14] Take a pause with therapy. BetterHelp can help life feel manageable again. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash morbid. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash morbid. [28:28] Chilling crime cases are mysterious, but finding coverage shouldn't be. With the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you have options and can personalize your plan to help create an affordable price so you can get back to cracking all of life's bigger cases. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Head to statefarm.com to get a quote. Prices are based on rating plans

[28:58] availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. [29:07] A former neighbor of his told the New York Times, everybody talks about that here. He was always yelling at kids. [29:13] That would have pissed me off. Ooh. Ooh. Now, when it came to the children in his neighborhood, Jim's frustration and anger was limited to yelling and calling them names. Nice. You know, normal adult behavior. Look at him just within his limits. With his own children. [29:30] On the other hand, he was known to have been verbally, emotionally and physically violent. On one occasion, just a week or two before the shooting spree. This is horrendous, by the way. [29:41] The Huberties' neighbor, Wanda, was surprised when Jim's older daughter showed up at her door with welts all over her face. And when she asked what happened, the girl replied her daddy had slapped her around. [29:52] That's so sad. Fuck Jim Huberty. And to just like say that so openly, like that's a normal occurrence. He didn't give a shit because he's willing to send his daughter. Yeah, he doesn't care. And he knows she's going to say what happened. And she's saying it like, isn't this just something that happened? Yeah, that's what dads do, right? Yeah, that's horrific. So sad. In the winter of 1971, their house caught fire while they were all out of the house. At that time, Jim was storing large containers of gunpowder in the basement. And when the fire reached that area, [30:22] of the house, it just went up in a huge giant fireball. Like a legit explosion. Yeah, like down to the foundation. But they actually bounced back pretty quick and they bought a three, like a big three-story home on the lot next to where their old house was. And then on the now vacant lot, they built a six-unit apartment building that would eventually provide them extra income. Imagine, Jim, you really being your landlord. No, thank you. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he didn't really handle anything. Probably not. According to one author, any success that they experienced during this time was

[30:51] probably certainly etna's hard work uh for most if not all of their marriage she did literally everything she managed the household the children she dealt with the world outside of the home because he couldn't in the morning he would she would get her husband and [31:06] and children out of bed, lay out their clothes, [31:11] pack their lunches, and get them to their various locations. She had three children. Yeah. And she was always going out of her way to limit Jim's interactions with the people around them, terrified that any conversation or miscommunication would escalate into, like, physical violence or him exploding, which gives... [31:29] In this sense, I feel so horrible because Etna obviously felt... [31:35] Like this was her lot. Well, and the other thing is... And she was just trying to limit his exposure to other people. Exactly. And I'm sure a part of her was probably terrified to leave him. Oh, she was probably horrified. I'm not condoning the fact that she didn't, because obviously he's beating her and their children. Like, that's awful. But she's probably so scared he has a zillion guns. That's the thing. And he's going to see that as, like, another slight. Exactly. Who's to say he's not going to go after you and your babies? And again, it's easy... [32:00] for us to sit here from [32:03] a place where we have like loving safe partners and say, you know, like I would get out of that house. I don't know what that feels like. And I, and I can't sit here and claim that I do or feel like I would be the super woman that knew what to do when our entire house is covered in, in, [32:19] insane amounts of guns to the point where it will explode if there's a fire explosive and hurting all of us and threatening all of that like I don't

[32:28] And that's living hell. And not only that, it wasn't easy for a woman in the 70s to break out on her own with two children. No, you couldn't even get a fucking credit card. Exactly. So it's like, that's horrific. It really is like it's horrific. Oh, I hate it. So sad. But yeah, she was always just trying to keep him from getting in trouble, essentially. And behind closed doors, though, he had no trouble taking out his anger on the entire family. She said, and this is so sad. It is. She said, quote, generally, it was just one hit. [32:58] But there were other times that he would beat them all relentlessly. He even threatened one of his daughters with a butcher knife once. Literally insane. [33:07] Like young kids. I mean, I don't even care if your daughter's 35 years old and you threaten her with a butcher knife. What the fuck is wrong with you? [33:15] He's a horrific monster. He really is. For just about anyone who knew or even those who had just met him, Jim Huberti's rage and extremely unpleasant demeanor were definitely the primary problems. But just beneath that were other... [33:30] more subtle signs of emotional distress that generally went overlooked. Cause again, you, [33:35] That's the same thing we're saying. He's just a bad person. He's just a nasty, mean, violent, bad person who is severely mentally unwell. Right, on top of all of that. And it's like, he's probably one of... [33:46] the scariest types of people you can imagine. Oh, yeah. This isn't a kind-hearted person who has a mental health crisis. This is a bad situation. [33:55] monster who is currently suffering...

[33:59] really severely with mental health problems. It's like, that is the worst combination I can think of. It absolutely is. Truly. Which makes me... [34:08] feel for his children and his wife even more because living with that is unthinkable. Because you just never know what you're going to get. And you just know it's all bad. It's got to be dark as hell. Like there's no way of getting beneath this mental health crisis because underneath is a bad person. So there's no like light at the end of the tunnel with him. It's just really sad. Yeah. [34:32] But as early as the mid-1970s, Etna started encouraging her husband to seek mental health. [34:38] like help, which like kudos to her. Seems like she was the only person that did that. She was trying. And in one instance, Jim told her God and Jesus Christ were consulting him about the government and President Carter. Which is really, really scary. Which shows you right there. [34:52] He's mentally unwell. In another instance, Jim told a co-worker he, and this is really sad, [34:59] He killed one of his dogs for speaking to him. And he went on to explain that the dog hadn't spoken to him verbally, but had communicated through his eyes in a way that Jim understood and didn't appreciate. [35:10] I can't imagine my coworker looking at me and telling me that. Like, that's chill you to your spine scary. Now to Jim, everybody was always out to get him in one way or another. And in time, he became consumed by his desire to get back at anyone who slighted him. If he received bad customer service somewhere, he would make harassing phone calls or pick at the business. If a neighbor did something he didn't like, he would set up an elaborate scheme that took weeks of planning to get revenge on them.

[35:40] Yeah. [35:43] only because he would get in trouble. That didn't stop him from enrolling his daughters in karate classes, not for their own betterment. No, no. [35:52] but so that he could direct them to assault the other children that lived around them. [35:56] Which, like, if you take karate, you know is the exact opposite of what they're teaching you. They do an entire oath in the beginning that says that they will not use it for that. Right. Right. [36:05] So you're like... [36:07] And you're directing your children to be your little agents of chaos? To go beat children you don't like? And go beat children because you don't like them? Like... [36:15] That's beyond. And then you're making your children pariahs. You're continuing this awful, awful toxic cycle. Things in his life took a serious downturn in 1982 when after 13 years of employment, he was laid off from his job at the factory. [36:29] Just about everyone who knew him has acknowledged that this is where his life started really spiraling out of control. And he had done nothing wrong. [36:37] to manage the stress. I mean, yeah, this is for sure where he spiraled. He was already... [36:43] Nothing good was coming out of this guy. He was not killing it. Now, rapidly running out of money and sensing her husband was on the verge of a breakdown, Edna put the couple's property on the market and gently approached Jim about what to do. [36:58] Jim was too consumed with paranoia to be much of a help, and instead he spent most of his time focused on his belief that the factory closing was just evidence of a larger conspiracy to ruin him, and he was determined to... [37:09] get even with everyone, telling one former co-worker he was going to kill himself and, quote, take everyone with him.

[37:16] Guys, you got to call someone. He is literally spelling it out for people around him. [37:22] What is everyone doing? That's the thing. Yeah. Is it's like... [37:26] He is like you just, he is spelling it out. It's yeah. [37:31] He's yelling it to everyone. Those paranoid delusions got even worse when a deal for both properties fell through and Jim and Etna ended up selling their properties at a loss. To Jim, this was just further evidence of the conspiracy. So he sued his realtor. [37:45] Now, when everything fell apart for them in Ohio, Jim decided it was evidence of his longstanding belief that the entire country was in fact on the verge of collapse. Rather than relocate to any other city or state, he picked up his entire family in the spring of 1983 and moved them to Tijuana. [38:03] When they left Ohio, he really didn't bother to bring much of their furniture or personal belongings. Of course not. He just filled the car with this massive gun collection and a huge stock of ammunition. Those poor children. Those poor children. To be uprooted from your already... [38:19] insanely dark and chaotic life and then packed up in a car with a bunch of guns moved to Mexico. Yeah. We're like, you don't know anybody. They don't speak the language. They don't speak the language. And then your father is this terrifying man who like nobody wants to be around. So you're even more isolated. Yeah. [38:37] And it's getting worse and worse, his delusions, his paranoia. So there's no shortage of, you know, irrational motives for moving the entire family to Mexico, in his mind. Of course. Ultimately, though, they only lasted three months before moving back to the U.S. Because remember, he's also violently racist. Yeah. So and they settled in the San Ysidro neighborhood of San Diego. Once they settled into their two bedroom apartment, it didn't take long for the old problems and bad habits to just crop right back up.

[39:07] neighbors recalled hearing Jim yelling at Aetna, the girls, on multiple occasions. So sad. The one neighbor who lived next door told a reporter he'd never heard the couple so much as argue. I think he just didn't want to get into this. While their new neighbors initially tried to be friendly and welcoming, they became decidedly less friendly when Jim made his dislike of minorities known to everyone with an earshot. Reporter Carlos Amesca said he was very anti-immigrant. He hated immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants. [39:36] So that's where we're sitting. You're a terrible person. Yeah. And also... [39:40] Why move into immigrant communities if you hate immigrants? Exactly. Why are you infiltrating their safe space? Yeah, you're infiltrating their place. Like, you can go, I mean, you up and moved your family to Tijuana, first of all, when you're a racist piece of shit. So, like, make that make sense. Yeah. And then you moved to San Ysidro, right? Yeah, San Ysidro. That's a very well-known immigrant community. Like, Mexican community. Yeah. What are you doing? So, go move somewhere where you can spout your nastiness to other angry white people. Yeah. Or go fuck yourself. [40:10] Or go fuck yourself. You choose. But like, why are you infiltrating their community and talking shit about them? Right. Like, what the fuck? Jim never felt settled in California if he ever felt settled. [40:21] his entire life. Edna said in his mind, everything in Ohio was done right. And he could not adjust to the way things were done in California. [40:29] So he was unemployed, surrounded by people he disliked because of his extreme racism, and the entire landscape was foreign to him. And in the past, he probably wouldn't have had any trouble finding a job as a welder. But a recent car accident had left him shaky, and that ruled out any work like that. And I'm sure it led to even greater conspiracy. Exactly. Then one day he saw a newspaper ad for a federally funded job training program. It offered grants to low-income individuals interested in training to be a security guard.

[40:59] Jim excelled at every aspect, especially the target shooting. He did? That's crazy. Yeah, he was placed in the expert category. Once he'd finished the training, he was granted a two-year registration as a trained security guard in the state of California, and he set about looking for work. [41:13] In comparison to the training as a security guard, finding actual work was exponentially harder for him. On paper, he was an ideal candidate. But as soon as he sat down in front of potential employers, things would change quickly. Because he can't speak to people. Just a few days after completing the training course, he got an interview with Bernstein Security Services. Owner Rudy Bernstein recalled, he told me how well he handled himself and how he would only work for top security firms. [41:43] against bad attitude and obvious lies. Yeah. After he left the interview, Bernstein took measures to ensure... [41:49] that the candidate was not going to get the job. He wrote, no. [41:52] in bold four inch letters on Jim's application and then traced over it again with a darker marker to make it clear. Really making sure that took me out when I heard that. [42:02] Jim did manage to find work with another security firm nearby in Chula Vista. [42:08] working the undesirable 8 p.m. to 2 a.m. shift. That's pretty brutal. This guy with lack of sleep is probably not a great mix either. Won't just buy himself at a post. And when he wasn't working, sleeping, or ranting, he was shopping, buying new guns, gun parts, military uniforms. [42:25] you know so scary despite their very limited income jim spent money freely

[42:31] But whenever Etna needed to spend money on essential items or something for their children, Jim would explode in anger. On one occasion, when Etna told her husband one of the girls needed braces... [42:42] He burst into the girl's bedroom, waving around an Uzi. Oh my God. And shouted, why spend money on the girl's teeth? She'll be dead anyway. Okay. [42:52] Like, what the fuck? That's also just plainly telling your wife that you're going to kill them all. I'm going to kill all of you. That's so fucking scary. These poor fucking kids. Well, think of, like, how old you are when you got your first braces. Exactly. You're a young teenager. And your dad is literally bursting into your room with an Uzi, shouting about how you're going to be dead anyways, so why do you need braces? [43:22] - Thank you. [43:23] Their childhood was some of the worst, I can imagine. I can't even. While things at home were deteriorating fast, things at work weren't going very well for Jim either. His credentials and training made him a good candidate for the job. But his bosses at the security company were like, yeah, I don't know if this guy can actually do the job because... [43:41] He's wild. He also might just shoot somebody because he wants to. He was edgy. He constantly seemed paranoid and jumpy. His attitude was terrible. He was exploding at people. He was just being Jim Huberty. Not somebody that you want on your property with a gun. No. No. [43:56] On July 10th, 1984, he was fired from the security job after his boss determined he was, quote, too nervous for the work.

[44:03] Although he reacted to his firing about as well as anyone would expect, losing his job also seemed to be like, [44:10] A little bit of a wake-up call for Jim. After his job loss, he started speaking a little more openly about his mental health and wondering out loud whether he should seek help from a professional, which is what led him to place a call to the Mental Health Center on July 17th. [44:25] But when Jim didn't get the call back in a few hours, he became irrationally angry and stormed out of the apartment. By that time, Etna had become frightened for Jim's safety and the safety of others, and she started frantically calling mental health centers in the area and saying, [44:41] trying to locate the one jim had called that day she intended to tell the receptionist that contrary to what he told them he was in fact seriously suicidal or dangerous homicidal even and hoping that would be enough to get him an appointment immediately unfortunately because the receptionist wrote his name down wrong when etna did eventually land on the right mental health center the person on the other end looked over the call log and told her they hadn't had any calls from someone [45:11] Maybe they wrote it down wrong. Like, come on. Come on, guys. Now, the next morning, July 18th, Jim and Etna were due in traffic court related to just like a minor infraction. [45:21] According to the clerk on duty that day, he was Jim was pleasant. [45:26] and waited patiently until his name was called, never becoming agitated or angry. In fact, Jim even successfully managed to win the sympathy of the clerk, who, feeling sorry that the Hubertys had to wait so long, canceled the fine altogether. Wow. After leaving the courthouse, Jim and Etna took the kids to the zoo,

[45:46] where they spent a few hours walking the paths, looking at the animals. To Edna, Jim seemed uncharacteristically calm. That's so scary. Yeah. But every now and then he would make a comment that she said she found disturbing. At one point, they stopped to watch the animals. And apropos of nothing... [46:03] Jim just said, well, society had its chance and then walked away. [46:08] Oh my god. That would horrify me. [46:12] honestly i don't even know like what they would be able to do but you have to call the police if your husband ever fucking says that to you like that's i suppose society had its chance like i don't even know that's so scary and the fact that he was weirdly calm that must have been really scary and that's so sad yeah that they couldn't even actually enjoy the fact that he was calm and they because they were probably what does this mean yeah yeah [46:38] The family arrived home in the early afternoon and Etna made lunch for the girls. When she finished cleaning up the kitchen, she went into the bedroom to lay down for a little while. A few minutes later, Jim entered the bedroom wearing a full camouflage outfit and carrying a large bundle wrapped in a black and white checkered outfit. And he said, I want to kiss you goodbye. [46:58] Oh, God. When he stood up to leave the room, Aetna asked where he was going, and he replied... [47:03] I'm going hunting. I'm going hunting people. [47:07] Did she call someone? [47:10] we're gonna move forward okay from the balcony of the apartment one of their daughters watched as her father loaded this bundle into the car then pulled out the parking lot drove the [redacted address] where he pulled into the parking lot of the post office just across from the mcdonald's this was only 200 yards away from his house see it probably the restaurant was a very popular in the neighborhood and was a place parents frequently bought their children to play

[47:40] people inside. It was about 4 p.m. when John Arnold clocked in for a shift at McDonald's. He was standing at the register, but he didn't see Jim Huberti come through the door. All he remembers was hearing his co-worker Guillermo Flores yell, hey, John, that guy's going to shoot you. Oh, my God. Arnold turned around and saw Huberti pointing a shotgun in his direction. He said he was pointing that gun right at me. He pulled the trigger, but nothing happened. Then he brought it down and started messing with it. [48:09] When Jim lowered the gun, John relaxed a little, thinking like, was this just a prank? Like, what is this? But it wasn't. The gun had just jammed. He already fiddled with the shotgun briefly before finally clearing the jam and firing it into the ceiling. The noise got everyone's attention, which is when Jim pulled out his 9mm semi-automatic Uzi gun. [48:29] from the bundle he was carrying and fired at 22-year-old manager Neva Cain. [48:34] hitting her several times before she dropped to the ground oh my god employee albert leo said i saw him come in and tell everyone to get to the floor then he just started shooting at everyone the people who tried to get out to run out of the mcdonald's he started shooting at them waving his gun around furiously he shouted i'm gonna kill you all [48:53] He then referred to everyone in the restaurant as dirty swine, telling them he'd killed many in Vietnam and he was going to kill a thousand more. He had not served in Vietnam. Yeah. Yeah. [49:04] He tried to enlist, but was deemed unfit for service. [49:09] I wonder why. But in that moment, none of that matters. No. After killing Neva Kane, he already turned and began firing through the windows at the people across the street at the donut shop.

[49:19] Thank you. [49:20] Twelve-year-old Joshua Coleman and his friends David Flores and Omar Hernandez had gone to the shop to get ice cream that afternoon and were walking out just as he started shooting in their direction. Flores was killed immediately. [49:33] Walking out with his ice cream. A 12-year-old with his friends. Yeah. Omar Hernandez was shot multiple times and ended up dying on the ground. Yeah. [49:41] Joshua Coleman was hit in the chest, knocking him to the ground. Coleman was panicked and terrified that if he moved, the shooter would realize he was still alive and fire at him again, so he stayed completely still, struggling to breathe. He was shot in the chest. [49:55] He later said, I needed air and I couldn't get enough. I had to take short, quick breaths. Oh, God. [50:01] Inside the McDonald's, Jim turned his gun on the families in the play area. [50:06] firing indiscriminately into the crowd as parents just grabbed their children and huddled under the stone tables. [50:13] Nightmare is not even the correct word. Keith Thomas later recalled, we got under the table and I got shot in both arms. He was a kid. [50:21] Oh, my God. That afternoon, Keith had gone out to a late lunch with his best friend, Mateo Herrera, and Mateo's father, Ronald. Oh, my God. [50:28] With the two boys squeezed beneath the table, Ronald, the father, shielded them both with his own body. But in the end, it wasn't enough. Mateo was shot and killed. And Keith was shot seven times. Oh, my God. But Keith credits Ronald with saving his life that day. Seven times. And that's like his best friend's father saved him with his own body. That's the thing. The heroes that come out of these stories. Oh, it like shatters your heart. People that literally shield others with their own bodies. Because no one should have to do this.

[50:58] There should not be such thing as a human shield. No. [51:02] The first call came into San Diego 911 a few minutes after the shooting started, when someone dragged one of the victims, a young girl, off the sidewalk and into the post office across the street. Officer Miguel Rosario said, The call came in, if I can remember, as some type of disturbance where a little girl had been shot. I had no clue what I was about to enter into. God. The communication here is awful. From start to finish in this story. [51:32] the east side because there was some confusion around where the incident was taking place rosario was dispatched to the wrong location and didn't receive the correction until he was about a block away from the east side mcdonald's as a result emergency services were delayed by anywhere between three and five minutes as the officer had to backtrack and make his way to the right location three and five minutes is an eternity a huge oh my god inside the restaurant everything [52:02] This is for some reason this [52:05] detail. [52:06] sent me the alarms on the fryers and other heating elements were all going off because the food was getting burned because it's it's just madness so now people are crying screaming and moaning in pain and there's fryer alarms going off and like other heating element things just being like like just crazy crazy [52:26] And then on top of that, whatever wasn't being drowned out by the alarms was covered up over, are you ready? Are you ready?

[52:33] The pop music blaring out of the portable stereo that Huberty had brought with him. Every now and then he would fiddle with the radio changing the station to find a song he liked. And then he would start firing wildly across the restaurant again. Oh my God. I never got to that detail. [52:51] I thought you were going to say the pop music over the McDonald's speakers. No, he brought his own. [52:55] And would change it to a song he liked. [53:00] That just made me like physically ill. Like that is beyond evil. An outside local reporter, Carlos Omezca, happened to be coming out of the post office when the shooting started, making him the first reporter on the scene. Oh, my God. [53:15] He said later, before I could even realize it, I heard the whistles of shots going by my head. I hit the ground so hard that I thought I'd been shot because I had blood on my face and hands. I'd actually hit my nose on the pavement. Oh, my gosh. As Carlos scrambled for cover behind the cars, Miguel Rosario finally arrived, pulling his patrol car into the parking lot of the post office. And remember, he was the one that was sent to the wrong location. It was just him. At that point, Rosario still hadn't been informed of exactly what was going on. [53:45] So he thought it might have been a robbery or other public disturbance. He later said, walking to the post office is when I first realized something was very wrong. People were hiding behind cars. They were looking towards the McDonald's. So he looked in the direction of the restaurant just in time to see Jim Huberty raise the Uzi in his direction and fire. Oh, my God. He was able to dive behind a truck to avoid being hit.

[54:08] The cover gave him just enough time to radio for backup and tell them, hey, get here now. Get the fuck over here. To the correct McDonald's. His call went out at 4.10 p.m., 10 minutes into the assault. [54:21] And you have to think about 10 minutes. Honestly, set a fucking timer for 10 minutes right now. [54:29] That is such a long time in this kind of situation. Because you hear 10 minutes and you go 10 minutes. Like, oh, I'll be there in 10 minutes. No big deal. Like, that sounds like whatever. Sit for 10 minutes. [54:38] 10 minutes. I set a timer at night for my mouthwash for one minute. And it's like one minute is so long. Like it's crazy. I set a timer for two minutes every time the girls brush their teeth. And even I'm like, oh my God, are you supposed to be brushing for this long? That's a long time. So 10 minutes in this, 10 minutes sitting there is a long time. 10 minutes in this kind of absolute nightmare scenario. And this man has, I don't even know how many guns you said. Yeah. And how much [55:08] He knows how to make his own ammunition. So it probably is. Oh yeah. Hundreds. He was able to get off hundreds of rounds. [55:14] Hundreds of rounds. [55:16] a McDonald's where families went to play with their kids. And he knew that. [55:21] i so wish that you know in a strange way because we already know i wish that he hadn't been killed and i wish that he was sitting in prison to this day to just rot tortured yeah [55:34] *music*

[55:44] This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the all-in-one finance app where you can bank, borrow, and invest all in one place. Let's talk about bank accounts for a second. The average bank savings rate is 0.39% in interest. You're earning pennies on your savings and it doesn't have to be that way. [56:02] But with SoFi's high-yield checkings and savings, the money barely making moves sitting in your savings account can earn over eight times the national average savings rate with eligible direct deposit. No account or overdraft fees. We love transparency. You can get your paycheck up to two days early, plus get up to a $300 welcome bonus when you sign up with eligible direct deposit. [56:25] Sign up for SoFi Checking and Savings at SoFi.com slash morbid. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank and a member FDIC. Terms apply. [56:37] Getting scared is one thing. Getting a thrill is, well, you want more of those in your life. The Genesis GV70 is built to thrill, baby. A thrilling yet elegant design always makes driving the GV70 an exciting adventure. Its powerful athletic stance screams performance and turns heads. Everybody's looking at you, girl or boy or whoever. Command the road and experience a [57:07] modes for all different terrains. Choose between the different terrain modes for whatever road conditions you may encounter. The Genesis GV70's award-winning technology and performance lets you drive with comfort and drive with confidence all at the same time. It's an exciting SUV with intuitive tech that can make your ride smooth even when the road isn't. And its blind spot cameras allow you to see what's next to you. It's like having eyes on the side of your head. That's

[57:37] It makes you feel confident, sexy. The Genesis GV70. Learn more at Genesis.com and feel the GV70. [57:47] Summer is the perfect time to rethink what clothes you're reaching for every day. With the warmer weather, you want lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment that you put them on, and also look effortless. That's where quince comes in. You guys, I love quince. They focus on high-quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft, organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It looks like luxury, it feels like luxury, but you don't get that markup. [58:15] It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated, but still easy. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond. I actually was getting ready for the spring recently, so I said, Quince.com, please. And I got a couple of their linen skirts. They are, first of all, so freaking comfortable. They come in the cutest colors. My favorite one that I got is in this yellow color. It just makes me feel like sunshine when I get all dressed. [58:45] Those are a staple in my wardrobe every single time of the year between summer, fall, winter, spring, all of the above. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash morbid for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com slash morbid for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash morbid.

[59:14] Now later, after everyone had learned the full details of the massacre, several people did question why no one inside the restaurant, which I'm like, guys, [59:22] Like I, this, that makes me crazy. People were questioning why no one in the restaurant had done anything to try to stop him. What are you going to do? He has a million guns. And that's the thing. Cause they're all like, well, any attempt would have been better than nothing. [59:36] you're gonna get killed exactly and albert leos somebody who was there which it's like how will we listen to the people that were experiencing it right because we can all sit here on our ass in our comfy safe home and you're like why aren't you trying to bum rush him why didn't you try to do that you do you don't know what the fuck you would do you don't know what your flight and fight or flight is going to do in that moment no you weren't in there watching kids get shot when parents trying to save their kids and like so many people don't realize that [1:00:03] A lot of people's fight or flight response is freeze. And it's not anyone's fault. No, it's just what your body does. It's just the way it is. But Albert Leo said there was just no way. When you have someone who's armed the way he was, it's not like in the movies where someone can jump on him. There's just no way. No. [1:00:22] like semi-automatic and automatic rifles. Jim Huberty had come prepared that afternoon. He carried an Uzi semi-automatic [1:00:31] Which also an automatic or a semi-automatic, you're not getting a moment between these shots. Like he's able to just mow down. It's like Call of Duty. Exactly. It's literally like something out of a horrible, horrible action flick. Isn't it what they do? They use that in wars? Those in wars? I have no idea. I'm not even going to try to say it. But they use that for like mass carnage. Any kind of like automatic weapon.

[1:00:54] is horrifying. Like it just is for like, you know, but so he was carrying an Uzi semi-automatic, a nine millimeter handgun and a Remington pump, pump action shotgun. Whenever one gun ran out of bullets, he would simply pull another out and start firing again. And you also have to think he's an expert. Like he's so he's a gun. He can reload quick. He can fix jams. Because I'm sure so many people like would take this moment to say, or back then, like, oh, he took a minute to [1:01:24] It was fast. Yeah, he's done this his whole life. It's the only thing he's been obsessed with. And again, no one knew how long they might have between breaks when he would stop to reload. So no one wanted to take the chance to go rush at him. [1:01:39] and start another shooting spree you get yourself killed because also you're not even just getting yourself killed and i'm sure these people are thinking this he's not shooting one shot at a time it's not just going to be you going down you standing up and rushing at him could take out everyone around you right and so they're probably thinking in that scenario like and there's it worth me getting up and having him mow down a whole group of kids behind me that's the thing there's kids everywhere yeah like this is awful it's an awful situation i can't [1:02:06] Imagine being in it. Now, once crime scene technicians had processed the scene later, they determined that Huberty had managed to fire, like I said, hundreds of rounds in all directions. [1:02:17] And when he wasn't blindly firing, ranting, or listening to music, he would walk through the restaurant shooting people, several of whom were already dead. Just shooting them more. And when the noise became too much, he would shout at everyone, demanding that parents keep their children quiet because they were making him anxious.

[1:02:36] What? Like, how do you expect anybody to calm their child in this situation? What the fuck, dude? Maria Reveria was one of those parents hiding under the tables trying to keep her children quiet. She told them the bullets were just little pieces of ice flying out of the broken ice machine, but she didn't think that they believed her. No. She later said, he came to our table and kicked me and I had to pretend I was dead. Oh my god. He thought we were dead because there was a lot of blood around us. [1:03:06] Yeah. [1:03:10] And also in that case, like that is such a fucking mom right there in that situation to come up with something even remotely comforting instead of like this man is killing everybody around us. [1:03:21] It's the ice machine. Like, props to that mom. That's being a mom. That's next level. Now, after about... Are you ready? [1:03:28] 40 minutes. [1:03:30] It truly is shocking. Almost an hour. It's shocking that anybody... [1:03:35] Made it out of this alive. Yeah. Some people decided to try to make a run for the emergency exit, hoping that they could reach the door before he spotted them. Cashier Wendy Flanagan recalled, The girl that was at the cash register with me, Maggie, she saw that I was not running and she went behind me and she was pushing me the whole way as I ran. I imagined I was running through rain. [1:03:58] She said, I felt like I was running through rain and I heard bing, bing, bing, because I believe now he was shooting with the machine gun and he was shooting at us and the bullets were ricocheting all over.

[1:04:09] And when Maggie and then Maggie got really heavy and she was keeping me from running. So she slipped from my arm and I ran down the stairs into a closet and she never came. [1:04:20] Like, oh, when you think these are like young girls working these registers. Wendy managed to reach the emergency exit on her own. But when she hit the door, she discovered it had been locked by the management who feared the employees might steal food. [1:04:35] If they had an unmonitored exit. You gotta be fucking kidding me. I hope some shit came out of this. You gotta be fucking kidding me. So thinking fast, Wendy turned and ran through the door that led to a small supply room at the bottom of Short Flight of Stairs, where several others were also hiding. Okay. Outside the supply room, they could hear their co-worker, Albert Leos, get shot five or six times, including two serious wounds in his arm and leg. [1:05:05] or where he'd left his supply. [1:05:07] In that moment, Leos used the opportunity to drag himself to the supply room door, and then he dragged himself down the flight of stairs where the other people were hiding. Despite how seriously he was injured, he knew if he made any noise, he was going to give away their position. So he bit down on a rolled up rag and used shoelaces as tourniquets on his arms and legs. Wow. [1:05:29] Now, having spent nearly an hour trapped in the restaurant with this... [1:05:33] absolute maniac. The remaining survivors couldn't understand why. After having shot through the windows and killing people outside on the street, the police hadn't shown up to stop him. Yeah, like, where are they? This must have been...

[1:05:47] Because sitting there and having this happen for so long, you're like, where are they? Like, where are the people that are supposed to save us? Like, I don't understand this. Throughout the late 1970s and early 80s, Americans had watched their local police departments become much more militarized as well and heavily armed with military grade weapons, supposedly to prevent or stop incidents like this. And yet there they were. [1:06:11] trapped inside with Huberti, and there was no sign of law enforcement to be seen, at least as far as they knew. Right. In reality, though... [1:06:19] which this is the reality, there was a heavy presence outside police presence. But their attempts to intervene kept getting hindered by several factors. For one thing, the windows were covered with a tinted film, making it difficult for anyone outside to see in. That visibility was further hampered by the fact that after Huberty fired through the windows, the double-paned glass didn't shatter. It just cracked into like a spider web. [1:06:44] pattern, making it almost impossible to see inside. Also challenging was their physical location. Although it surely wasn't planned that way. The McDonald's was all glass on three sides, and Huberti could see through all of them. [1:06:58] So anytime one of the officers tried to get close to the building, he would see them and unleash a torrent of semi-automatic gunfire at them. This not only put the responding officers at risk, but everyone else who was still pinned down outside the restaurant when the shooting started. Eventually, the SDPD called in fire trucks to position around the perimeter to block the pedestrians.

[1:07:28] into them. Yeah. And at least one fireman was shot in the process. [1:07:32] Now, after an hour, the San Diego police SWAT team had arrived at the scene, and I was like, [1:07:37] An hour? An hour. You brought the SWAT team in after an hour? The SWAT team should have been called immediately. They took up their positions with sniper Chuck Foster atop the room of the post office across the restaurant, the roof, excuse me, of the post office. He later said, I got up on top of the room along with my spotter, Barry Bennett, at about 5.02 p.m. [1:08:00] Thank you. [1:08:00] I was like, um, what? Because this all started around 4 p.m. He said, once I got up onto the post office roof, I could look down upon the McDonald's. I could see a few bodies lying inside the restaurant. I could see a few times when the shooter was firing out towards the street, towards the fire trucks. The shooter within the McDonald's had a lot of advantages where he was at. Yeah. Yeah. [1:08:22] As soon as he was in position on the roof, Foster had the same problems that the officer on the ground had. The windows were both tinted, heavily cracked. He just couldn't see anything. Under those conditions, there was a high likelihood that if he took a shot, Foster could have missed or hit one of the people inside. Also, the officers outside the restaurant knew very little about what was actually happening inside the restaurant. And they thought that if there was more than one shooter, which they thought there was, considering how many... [1:08:50] shots were being fired, they said taking one out might prompt the other one to kill everyone else inside. Because they also didn't know if this was like a hostage situation. And they were like,

[1:09:00] If we kill one, that might negate any hope that we have of getting anyone else out. Right. This is an impossible situation. It is. Now, after about 15 more minutes of holding in position... [1:09:11] Chuck Foster finally saw Huberty walk to the front of the restaurant and hop up on the counter. [1:09:16] From his position, it looked like Jim was reloading his guns, but Foster could only see him from the waist down and didn't have a clear shot. He later said it was impossible to see inside the McDonald's through those windows. I didn't get a chance to see him at all until just before shooting him. Wow. The only reason I could see inside was because his gunshots shattered a double door of safety glass. [1:09:37] Chuck saw Huberty get off the counter and take a few steps towards the front doors, which had been blown out entirely. Worried that he might not get another chance, he drew in a deep breath. And as soon as Jim appeared through the broken glass of the front door, he fired a single shot that ripped right through Huberty's heart, killing him instantly. Wow. [1:10:07] McDonald's had finally come to an end. 77 minutes. 77 minutes. [1:10:14] Minutes. That has to be one of the longest shootings. I can't imagine this. [1:10:20] Amen. [1:10:20] In that time, Jim Huberty had murdered 21 people, many of them children, and injured nearly two dozen others. [1:10:28] And those who managed to survive this whole thing,

[1:10:31] having escaped with their lives would suffer from profound post-traumatic stress disorder. Absolutely. For decades to come. Probably for the rest of their lives. Oh, I can't even imagine. And also, there are children suffering PTSD from this. Oh, yeah. Who are going to have to grow up with this. [1:10:50] Like truly, that's why like this time of year when I think about like fireworks and that kind of thing and just, yeah, obviously like it's a thing that happens, but I just feel for people who are triggered by that because that has got to send you. [1:11:04] into such a catastrophic state that sound yeah yeah like that's i can't imagine surviving this and then hearing and then hearing fireworks especially when like i think it's so annoying and i don't care how i come off i feel like i know exactly what you're gonna say and i feel the fourth of july cut the shit all done cut the shit because when people start doing them on random weeknights at like 11 p.m you're an asshole you're an asshole and that's just how i feel like [1:11:34] You're an asshole if you do that. Like truly. And especially when people start it weeks earlier or they do it for weeks after 4th of July. There's a designated day. There's a designated day. Yeah. And you do... [1:11:46] I realize the world is not, like, fully, you know, a safe space for everyone and can't cater to everyone's, you know, triggers or whatever the hell anybody wants to say. But... [1:11:57] there are certain things we can do that are just really easy to do. Yeah. And it's like,

[1:12:03] do your fireworks on the 4th of July. Come on. And then stop. You just don't need to do them. Think about this this year. Like, really think about this. Yeah, just think about this and thinking about somebody who lived through this. And then two weeks after 4th of July, someone decides to, out of fucking nowhere, in the middle of the night, shoot off fireworks a couple of houses down. Not only like... And what that would do to someone. Because also, you have to think of how many people at this point in life and where we are have lived through this. [1:12:33] many people have lived through this. And like, you really do need to take that into consideration. [1:12:39] Which I feel like a lot of... It's worth saying. I feel like a lot of our listeners are just... I know. I know. [1:12:44] I'm sure we pissed off a couple people. I'm sure we got a couple people that are pissed off. It's really worth saying. It's just the way it is. But I think most of our listeners right now, I think you guys listening, are the kind of people who are considerate and think of those things and also don't do that stuff. I'm sure, you know, you're always going to get people. But just if you are one of those people that loves to shoot off fireworks a few weeks after the 4th of July, just think about this. Yeah, take a second guess. If you decide to do it anyway, that's on you. But like, think about it. [1:13:14] that kind of sucks. I feel like we're not as close as I thought we were. Let's be friends and just all agree not to do that. Now, once Huberti was dead, the survivors came... [1:13:25] Running out of the building in all directions, not towards police or any other members of law enforcement, just away from the fucking building as fast as they could. It was only after they'd managed to wrangle the survivors and get the wounded to the hospital that the STBD finally started to understand the scope of what happened here. Because remember...

[1:13:43] They still don't know what the fuck was going on. They're like, is there still a hostage? Miguel Rosario recalled, nobody knew that this guy was in there by himself and just arbitrarily shooting people. Because why would your mind even think that? Well, and especially at this time. Exactly. It wasn't a common thing. From outside the restaurant, all they knew was that someone was shooting inside. So they naturally thought it was a robbery or a hostage situation. And that was really the most shocking element of the story. Although they've become... [1:14:09] obviously tragically common now, which is horrific. [1:14:13] And shame on all of us for it. In 1984, mass shootings were exceedingly rare. So much so, in fact, that law enforcement didn't recognize it when it happened in San Ysidro. Jim Hubert, he hadn't gone to McDonald's to rob anyone or make some kind of political statement, even by taking hostages. He'd gone there for the sole purpose of killing as many people as humanly possible before being taken out by the police. And he did exactly that. [1:14:43] worked through the night to process the scene and identify the bodies. According to the coroner, 13 of the victims died immediately upon being shot, while the rest likely died within a few minutes of being struck down. Because so many of the victims were children and didn't have identification on them, staff members from the coroner's office were forced to use photographs of the victims from the shoulders up. [1:15:05] To show the mass of people who'd assembled outside the office looking for their loved ones. [1:15:10] By the following day, they'd managed to identify all of the victims and

[1:15:14] I'm going to read them out. [1:15:44] Ada Velasquez's Victoria was 69%. [1:15:48] Jose Ruben Lozano Perez was 19. Carlos Reyes was 18. [1:15:53] eight months oh my god jackie lynn wright reyes was 18. [1:15:57] Victor Maximilian Rivera was 25. Arsdelzi Vuelvas Vargas was 31. [1:16:04] Hugo Luis Velasquez was 45. Lawrence Herman Versluz was 62. [1:16:12] David Flores Delgado was 11. [1:16:16] Omar Alonzo Hernandez was 11 and Miguel Victoria Ulloa was 74 years old. [1:16:23] such like a vast range of ages there like people eight months to 74 eight months like literally just starting your fucking time on this earth and like 69 and 74 and you make it that long in your life and this motherfucker is the one that ends your life yeah like that's just so cruel and to be looking at people crying and begging for their lives and just indiscriminately shoot them seeing

[1:16:53] You're shooting babies. You got nothing. You're shooting 11 and 12 year olds. You're shooting parents. Jim Huberty had nothing inside of him. He was an empty vessel, like truly an empty vessel. [1:17:05] Like he was just, nothing would have made him stop. [1:17:08] It really wouldn't. No. When the news broke, it shocked everyone from one end of the country to the other. Although it was it has unfortunately been surpassed in number. Yeah. [1:17:19] by others since. At the time, the San Ysidro Massacre was the worst mass shooting in American history. And most people found it impossible to understand how such a thing could happen, which... [1:17:30] I wish we could say now. [1:17:33] that that's the same thing that happens now that everyone can't imagine this happening. However, those who knew Jim Huberty were nearly as surprised. Yeah. [1:17:42] A former neighbor told a reporter he came across to me as cold. He looked like your average guy except for his facial expressions. I never saw a smile on him. [1:17:51] Now another person who wasn't entirely surprised by the shooting was Jim's wife, Edna. [1:17:56] I wonder if they like heard it from their apartment. That's what I wonder. They had to have. [1:18:02] But... [1:18:03] While being very well aware of Jim's long struggle with his poor mental health, his inability to manage his rage and the full extent of his decomposition in the day before the accident. [1:18:13] Edna would go on to unsuccessfully sue the McDonald's Corporation a few years later. You gotta be fucking kidding me. [1:18:19] alleging that [1:18:21] Quote, her deceased husband had been consuming copious amounts of McDonald's chicken nuggets in the days, weeks and months leading up to the shooting.

[1:18:32] To blame this atrocity on overconsumption of chicken nuggets. [1:18:39] when you know is diabolical and especially you know who that man was you know right well who that man was always been that way copious amounts of chicken nuggets or not yeah [1:18:52] That's all I'm going to say. We've already given you how we feel about Edna not leaving or whatever. We've said. We've sympathized. We've sympathized. And I will continue to sympathize and empathize with her. Not on this. On this? No. No, babe, I'm not empathizing with you. You're not blaming it on chicken nuggets. You're going to have to excuse me on this one. I'm not empathizing with the chicken nuggets. I can't imagine being a surviving victim alone. [1:19:21] Or the victim of the family member of a victim and hearing that this woman blamed it on chicken nuggets. Saying that chicken nuggets made him do this. No, you have to be fucking kidding me. She said that it contributed to his disordered mind. It didn't. He was already there. He had already said a million times to a million different people that he was going to kill a lot of people. He had been that way from childhood. Yeah. [1:19:42] And that is no fault of hers. [1:19:45] But don't blame it on chicken nuggets. That's wild. Because that really trivializes it. It really does. And it makes it not his fault suddenly. Yep. [1:19:54] And that's wild to do. It absolutely is. Now, while most people wondered what had caused him to go on such a shocking rampage, the public was equally frustrated with local law enforcement. And everyone wanted to know why and how he was able to continue killing people for well over an hour before police intervened.

[1:20:11] That was a long time. 77 minutes. And for them to only get SWAT there, like an hour late, that's... [1:20:17] that i don't get i don't i'll never understand that to throw a a sniper on a roof an hour later no what are you doing [1:20:24] Like, what are you doing? He could have been stopped earlier. In truth, it seems there were several important factors that obviously... [1:20:30] definitely hindered them from getting to him sooner. But the initial error in dispatching in the presence of a single officer to the heavy tinting on the glass, to the spidering on the glass, all these things contributed to this being allowed to go on for far too long. But still, the event did go on to influence police procedure with regards to incidents of mass shootings and other acts of terrorism, changing everything from the language used in [1:21:00] between agencies because no one [1:21:02] labeled this a mass shooting at first, to the surveillance tools used and even the scale and scope of weapons carried by all officers. Now, in the wake of the massacre, the community struggled over what to do with the building. [1:21:14] I know. Some wanted it torn down completely while others thought it should remain. Yeah. [1:21:19] In the end, the building was demolished and a permanent memorial was installed in 1990. I think this was the best thing to do. I think that's what I would have preferred to. The memorial consists of 21 hexagonal white marble pillars, each bearing the name of a victim. In his statement to the press at the unveiling of the memorial, designer Roberto Valdez said, the 21 hexagons represent each person that died, and they are different heights, representing the variety of ages and races of the people involved in the massacre.

[1:21:49] Thank you. [1:21:49] they are bonded together in the hopes that the community in a tragedy like this will stick together like they did. Wow. [1:21:56] That's really beautiful. That gave me chills. Yeah. I think that was the best thing they could have done for that location and what that was. I mean, what can you do other than that? Yeah. [1:22:09] It's a horrific story. It is. But again, I think it's one that needs to be told, one, to make sure those people are remembered. Yep. And two... [1:22:18] To really hammer in. [1:22:21] That mental health care and treatment for mental health is... [1:22:26] We can't ever get too good with it, man. And we're nowhere near it. We just need to keep improving. We're nowhere near it. So it's like we need to keep improving. And also... [1:22:34] people need to say shit when people are saying stuff i know it's hard sometimes of course i realize that people are like i don't want to sound like a crazy person calling and say this i don't want to get somebody's life ruined i don't want to do this like i get it saying the things that jim hubert was saying yeah [1:22:52] there's no such thing as overreacting to some of those statements. And you can do it anonymously. Just anonymously say, hey, I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know if he was serious, but he said this really concerning thing. Yeah. Yeah. [1:23:02] You could be saving a lot of people. You absolutely could. [1:23:05] If you ever get a chance to, please do that. Please do, honestly. We need the funnest of facts. I'm really looking for a good one. Wow. [1:23:16] This one, I don't know if I would call it fun, but it's something.

[1:23:22] People once used corn cobs instead of toilet paper. [1:23:27] Because they were soft, easy to hold, and there were a lot of them. [1:23:34] I love the fact there were a lot of them. There were a lot of them. There was so much calm. Just calm. You can use it to wipe your butt. It has the juice. [1:23:47] i have to go now that's crazy i have to go now that is a pretty fun fact i have never heard that in my life that's wild i'm not quite sure if i'm better for it i feel like we're all better for it i think that's a crazy one i think we are all right guys be kind to each other yeah think about fireworks this year yeah and if somebody says something to you that is so dark and chilling [1:24:17] Keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you get rotted to your core and you don't say anything. Yeah. Bye. Bye. [1:24:29] Thank you. [1:24:30] Thank you.

[1:25:00] Thank you. [1:25:30] Thank you. [1:25:50] you [1:26:00] It always happens like this. The hottest day of the year, and suddenly, nothing. [1:26:09] No air. [1:26:11] No relief. [1:26:13] Just Heat. [1:26:15] that won't let go. [1:26:18] Call Chris Heating and Cooling. We show up fast, tell you the truth, and fix it right. That's the Chris Standard. www.chriscools.com. Say you've always wanted to have a backyard oasis. Here's the thing. If you get smart with your money, you can do things like that.

[1:26:35] With Empower, you can start making the most out of your money so you can go out and live a little. Isn't that why we work so hard? To have some fun with our money? So, use Empower and get good at money so you can be a little bad. Join their 20 million customers today at Empower.com. Not an Empower client, paid or sponsored.