Gavin Newsom Is Finally Comfortable with Himself

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[01:45] And listen now. [02:07] Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. Last week, Tommy and I sat down with California Governor Gavin Newsom in front of a live audience [02:18] Young Man in a Hurry: A Memoir of Discovery. We also talked to him about Trump's war in Iran, the race for Newsom's successor in the Governor's office, [02:25] and lots more. Enjoy! [02:27] And if you like supporting pro-democracy media, consider subscribing to Friends of the Pod. Subscribers get all of our subscriber-only pods, like Pod Save America Only Friends. You get access to our growing list of sub-stack newsletters, like OpenTabs, which is behind-the-scenes look at Pod Save America. And you also get ad-free episodes of all your favorite Crooked Pods. So, the Ellisons make it CBS and CNN. [02:51] but they'll never get Crooked. So please subscribe to Friends of the Pod, crooked.com slash friends. Check it out. [03:01] What's so surprising about the book is it stops at your election as governor. It's all about your actual life before politics. Yeah, you may want to leave right now. Yeah, I'm like... [03:12] The whole idea was, you know, it's interesting, a little bit of the origin story I was talking backstage.

[03:18] I... [03:20] had the privilege of working with Anne Godoff, a legend in publishing. And she was the editor of the book at Penguin Press. [03:28] interestingly and tragically passed away last week on the day of the publication. [03:35] of this book. [03:36] And anyone that knows Anne, she's... [03:38] fierce. She's tough. And about seven years ago, she... [03:43] asked me if I was interested in writing a book, and it was marked that book by the relationship with Trump 1.0 and a little bit of the transition to the new administration under Biden. And it was a lot of storytelling about those first four years, chaotic years around social unrest issues related to COVID. And I submitted the book. [04:01] I'll never forget going on Zoom and and and just. [04:05] There was something off. And I tried to stop her before we went into arguing the case and the merits for the book, which I was really proud of. [04:12] And I said, if you want me, I know you may have some concerns. There's one chapter. [04:18] about my childhood and my family. And I totally get it if you want that out. [04:23] And she goes, that's the only part I want in. [04:27] So this was not... [04:29] The book I set out to write, it was the book that I had to write in response to that. And it's a book that I mentioned. It was a memoir. [04:42] ultimately of discovery, because it was a book that forced me [04:45] to learn about my childhood, learn about my past. And that's why it ended.

[04:50] with the passing of my father. [04:52] to [04:53] the question you asked. It went through election day where he literally survived. [04:59] To see a son. [05:01] Get elected. [05:02] governor of California. And so I thought that was an appropriate way to end the book. There's an epilogue that has some interesting stories that may fast track to the president a little bit. But it really is a love letter to my mom and dad and my family. Yeah. That election night scene is really remarkable given his story and trajectory and attempts to get into politics. And we're going to get into all of that and more stories from the [05:32] big breaking news happening in the world. I think a lot of folks would like to get... [05:35] your opinion on it. Um, [05:37] President Trump took us to war in Iran on Saturday. [05:40] It is. [05:41] feels like... [05:43] a little scary out there right now. [05:47] attacks seem to be growing in the Middle East. There's not really a clear plan coming out of the White House. What's your sense of whether it was necessary to go to war now? And do you think Democrats should be – [05:57] taking steps to try to block Trump via war powers vote or something in Congress? Yeah, I'm a little old fashioned. I believe in co-equal branches of government. [06:04] We are celebrating. [06:09] It is the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, after all. [06:14] You know, this historic project, the best of Roman Republic, Greek democracy, the notion of popular sovereignty, the rule of law, not the rule of Don, which we'll get into perhaps later. But I hope it's Don and everybody. He had no plan, no strategy.

[06:28] He had no interest or desire to engage you, me, all of us in understanding the why. Why now? [06:35] What's the imminent threat? [06:37] What are the intended and unintended consequences? The prospect of this becoming a regional war? Was that thought through? Who was going to take over for the supreme leader, particularly after you went through 49 others? And now today, Trump says, well, maybe it doesn't work out. Maybe we get someone who's worse. [06:57] You know, I-- [07:00] But nothing... [07:03] was more damning, I think, of the moment and this administration and who Donald Trump is. [07:09] It goes to the heart of who he is. [07:11] Then his press conference yesterday. [07:13] were his remarks, where he was lamenting the live, now it's six, but four Americans that died. [07:20] And he mentioned them. [07:22] In passing, [07:23] and then went on to mention in great detail [07:26] The drapes. [07:28] and the imperial palace. [07:32] on the east wing that he's building and went on to talk about the pile drive with real passion and conviction. [07:41] It says everything about Donald Trump. [07:43] the uncertainty in the world to the fact that we have allies under threat. In UAE, we've got proxy war once again with Hezbollah. In Lebanon, we've got all the anxiety as it relates to 20% of the world's oil flow and issues related to oil and oil.

[08:00] Prices and shocks and energy concerns and your 401k and the zig and the zag. And it begs so many questions. Why? He's got a passion for design. He's got a passion for hobbies. But it's just it's so, yeah, you asked me about the War Powers Act. You asked me about invoking some consideration. I mean, it takes a cursory. [08:21] Look at the Constitution. [08:24] to determine the requirement, a declaration of war for the president to get congressional approval. And so I appreciate Congress now getting back, not the leadership, but the minority getting back into the game in this respect. But this is a hell of a thing. And this is, remember, you guys all know this, this is, he has done more airstrikes [08:43] in his first year than the last administration did in four years. This is the seventh incursion, twice now, into Iran. At a time when he's cutting taxes for billionaires, he's cutting food stamps, he's cutting Medicaid, he's cutting Medicare. [08:56] And here he is spending tens of billions of dollars, not for recovery here in Los Angeles. He has no interest in that. [09:03] but overseas. [09:05] This is a broken president. He's historic because he's historically unpopular. And we all have to recognize the moment we're living in and how perilous this moment truly is. [09:16] you mentioned the you mentioned the shifting explanations and rationales that are coming out of the white house [09:27] Yesterday, Marco Rubio said, [09:29] pretty explicitly said that the timing of...

[09:32] the operation was based on planning by Israel. He basically said... [09:37] We knew that the Israelis were going to strike Iran, which meant Iran would strike back against our bases in the region, which means the U.S. had to preempt. [09:45] The response, I guess... [09:46] and bomb the Iranians first. What did you make of that explanation, [09:51] And then a lot of Democrats... [09:52] have looked at the Netanyahu... [09:55] regime and felt like, you know what, we don't like the trajectory he's on. It's time to rethink the U.S. relationship with Israel, especially military support. Well, he's making that easy right now. Let's talk about that. So the first rationale was we've got to make sure that they're not armed and nuclear armed. But we, of course... [10:11] that rationale was, [10:13] I thought was resolved, meaning we had completely obliterated their sites. [10:20] Uh, [10:21] And so that was the first rationale. Then, OK, so well, maybe that wasn't the case, but now it's about their missiles. [10:26] And they could perhaps hit the United States. And then you realize, wait, that's a decade plus away, if that. So that's BS. OK, then it's about their militias. It's about their proxy. Then it's no, it's about their Navy. And then it's no, it's in response to the likelihood that that Israel was going to. So we had to go in ourselves. And then you hear Hexet, God help us, in his rationale or non-rational. So this is this is Keystone Cops. [10:49] but playing with real lives, with our reputation. [10:53] They've already I mean, they so you see what's happening. Our allies, you see what's happening. The alliance in the context of truth and trust and the conversations that all of our allies are having now with India and with China is they're strengthening those relationships because they're starting to decouple or de-risk their relationship with the United States. But the issue of B.B.'s interesting.

[11:15] because... [11:16] He's got his own domestic issues. [11:18] He's trying to stay out of jail. [11:20] Thank you. [11:21] He's got an election coming up. He's potentially on the ropes. [11:26] He's got folks, the hard line, that want to annex the West, the West Bank. [11:30] I mean, Freeman and others are talking about it appropriately, sort of an apartheid state. [11:35] They couldn't even, I mean, we're talking about regime change. For two years, they haven't even been able to solve the Hamas question. [11:42] In Israel. [11:44] So this is, I mean... [11:45] You know, I want to be careful here, but, you know, in so many ways, that influence in the context of the conversation of where Trump ultimately landed on this is pretty damn self-evident. [11:55] And so Rubio may have been saying something. [12:00] else. [12:01] In the context of what he ultimately said in terms of being sort of pulled into some of these things. But I will say this didn't surprise me in this context. I don't know if it was Napoleon or whoever said about a sword. The only thing you can't use a sword for is sitting on it. [12:15] And when you bring two aircraft carriers out there and you assemble the kind of military force that Trump did over the last few weeks. [12:24] It didn't surprise me ultimately they moved that direction. [12:28] Do you think, looking down the road, that... [12:30] the United States would consider [12:33] maybe rethinking our military support for Israel? - It breaks my heart because, [12:39] the current leadership in Israel. [12:42] is-- [12:43] walking us down that path.

[12:45] where I don't think you have a choice but that consideration. [12:48] I mean, to say this is in America's interest... [12:50] At a time when affordability is at crisis levels, where you had administration literally got elected saying this is exactly opposite of what they would ever consider doing. [12:58] The fact that we are in this now regional war, all these proxies, the fact that we, you know, and all the grift and the corruption, it's also marks a huge part of this. And that's a real conversation we need to have, this board of peace. [13:12] And the peace that the Whitcoff family is getting and the peace that Kushner is getting and the peace that Trump Jr. is getting. [13:22] You just got to reconsider the whole thing. You just have to. And, you know, that's a that's a stubborn. I didn't expect to be in that place. [13:29] you know, [13:30] a few years ago, let alone, you know. [13:33] where we are today. [13:34] And it's accelerating in real time in a deeply, deeply alarming way. And it's just one of many things. [13:42] Alarm bells that are ringing and we can get it to democracy, our republic. We can get into what's happening with the secret police, you know, the Bovino vacation of our, you know, of our streets and what's happening in this country with democracy. You know, it's a precious and perilous time, but it also has parallels. [14:03] And some of those are reflected in some of the storytelling in the book and some of the revelations about my own family's relationship. [14:12] to... [14:13] The Red Scare. [14:14] Mm-hmm.

[14:15] It's Oppenheimer. [14:16] to McCarthy and McCarthyism. [14:19] And some of those currents, some of those tenants echo that. [14:23] today in many respects. One more newsy question. [14:28] I'll connect it to the book. In the book, you talk about your first race for governor. [14:34] And you talk about one of the strategies you guys pursued was that you sort of directed your advertising campaign. [14:40] campaign against [14:43] a Republican candidate that was running. Because if, you know, the top two vote-getters in California in the primary go on to the general, and if it was you and a Republican, in this case John Cox, who supported Trump, then you would have a much easier general. And if it was Antonio Villaraigosa, it would have been a little trickier. So you elevated John Cox, and it worked. And I know people hate that, but yes. Well, it worked, you know. And now, even though you are, of course, irreplaceable, there is a race to replace you for governor. Did you hear that? Sorry to hear. [15:13] Unbraceable. Um, [15:14] Here's the third terms. Yes, there's a very. Don't worry. Don't worry. So I do have a hat on my my Patriots site. You can check it out with our knee pads and Newsom was always right hats. But [15:28] I digress. You were asking me a question. [15:31] Very crowded field of Democrats. A couple polls. [15:35] It actually showed that it's so crowded and they're splitting the vote so much that, you know, it has the two Republican candidates in the one-two spot, which would mean a Republican governor of California. [15:44] Today... [15:44] The chair of the California Democratic Party said, look, if you're not making meaningful progress towards winning the primary and you're a candidate by April 15th, you should drop out. I saw the Speaker of the Assembly agreed as well. Do you agree with that as well?

[15:58] You know, Rusty Hicks, the head of the party, sent me his... [16:05] statement, and I read it a few hours ago, and I confess I agree. [16:09] And I really processed it because there's just I mean. [16:16] At this moment in history, [16:18] with all the peril and promise that marks this moment, [16:20] for California, the most un-Trump state in America, to have a Republican Trumper running. [16:28] There is no margin for error. And so look... [16:32] But I do confess, it is the hardest thing. When I was running for governor, it was all about me. [16:39] And, you know, I'm like, what is this Jerry Brown? Why doesn't he, you know, and I was his lieutenant governor. I said, just go out of the state, governor. Go out. Why are you still talking like you matter? Now I feel his pain. And I'm like, I'm sorry, Jerry. [16:55] You know, it's hard when you're like, I'm a milk carton. I got a sell by date. And it's, you know, it's a countdown. By the way, my daughter is 16. She's like, oh, she can't wait till I'm no longer governor. Circle in the day. Yeah. She's like, it's freedom. It's liberation day, the real liberation day. [17:10] For her. But but it's you know, look, this thing's around the corner. I think it's been hard. Just a brief reflection. [17:18] This race hasn't I don't think is getting the kind of attention it deserves. And it's hard at a time of Trump and Trumpism, where so much of our politics is so nationalized and the ability to dominate the narrative and the shock and awe that is Trump. And, of course, last year, so much of it was marked by a lot of the work we did around the Prop 50, et cetera. And so I appreciate that you all did on that.

[17:44] So it's been a little more difficult. And you got an election in a few weeks, early voting. [17:50] It's not even that many months. And so this is a moment for real self-reflection. Is it about [17:58] Is it about you, is it about me, or is it about all of us? And the stakes couldn't be higher. And so all I'll say is choose wisely. [18:15] Pod Save America is brought to you by Aura Frames. Aura Frames are the solution to the hundreds of photos that never make it past your camera roll. You can share your photos and videos effortlessly. You can download the free Aura app or text photos straight to your frame. There's free unlimited storage. Add as many photos and videos as you want. You can preload photos before it ships. [18:34] Keep adding from anywhere, anytime. You can personalize your gift. You can add a message before it arrives. The gift box is included. Every frame comes packaged in a premium gift box with no price tag. Got my parents an AuraFrame for Christmas. They love it. We can just sort of take a million pictures of the kids all day. And then you just go to the app and suddenly the picture of our children is on their AuraFrame. And they love it. We love it. It's easy. It's one of their favorite presents that we got for them. Highly recommend an AuraFrame. It's the easiest way to share memories. [19:04] by Wirecutter. You can save on the perfect gift by visiting oraframes.com for a limited time. Listeners get [19:10] $35 off their best-selling Carver Mat frame with code CROOKED. That's A-U-R-A frames.com. Promo code CROOKED. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

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[20:58] - Let's talk about the book. You've been saying that [21:01] Writing this book made you realize that for most of your life, [21:05] you're trying to be someone you're not. Yeah, yeah. Who are you trying to be? I don't know. [21:11] Oscar Wilde says, you know, the first duty in life is to strike a pose. [21:20] The second duty, no one knows. [21:22] And I feel like I'm in that second... [21:25] Face. [21:25] You know, the first phase, I struck a pose. I put a mask on and my face was growing into it in some respects. You know, I quite literally as a kid, I write about putting on a suit. [21:34] You know, I try to put on this armor. [21:36] You know, as a kid that struggled in school, pretty severe learning disability that still marks who I am today. A lot of my anxieties, my insecurities. But I was also marked by those moments that I never fully understood. [21:52] Until I wrote the book. [21:53] and learned about them in a way that I never understood it give you an approved point of that my mom was 19 when she was [22:00] you know, pregnant. [22:01] with me. And a few years later, she was on her own with two kids. [22:05] My father, for reasons neither of them explained, [22:08] Left. [22:09] Just a few years after the birth of [22:12] My sister was here tonight and I didn't understand it until I learned about it. It a oral history that he had done that none of us knew about at the Bancroft Library. And someone said when I was asking about my father and do you guys know why they got divorced? They never talked about it. They said.

[22:29] Did you hear the interview he did in the Bancroft Library? So he said it to a stranger. He never told us. [22:36] And he said that he... [22:37] And there's reason that I'm... [22:41] Telling this story. [22:43] He... [22:44] Lost an election for county supervisor. Turn around the next year, ran for state Senate. Lost both races. And in the interview, he said he was broke. [22:52] and broke in. [22:53] And he had a breakdown. [22:55] and just had to get the hell out of there. [22:57] And he left. [22:58] And he went up to Lake Tahoe region. [23:01] And for years and years and years, not only did I not understand that, I also never understood why my mom was so insistent that I never get into politics. [23:10] and up until her nine days, [23:14] She's like, you need to run. Get out of this. And by the way, when that recall against me qualified... [23:22] She spoke very loud to me even though she passed away in that moment. [23:27] But it makes sense now. [23:29] Here she was coming from no wealth, no money, no privilege, got married to a guy who was 32 years old. Scandal. [23:36] At 19, looking for that mentorship, looking for that stability and support. And here he is, he takes off. [23:42] Not because he was a bad guy, but he didn't know how to be a good husband and he didn't know how to be a good father. [23:48] in those early years. And so here's my mom, just hard work, grits, single mom. And by the way, [23:55] Single moms. I mean, just mad respect for all those single moms out there. Honestly.

[24:02] Like I didn't and I didn't know I my mom died 20 years ago. I never told her. Thank you. [24:08] I didn't. That young man in a hurry with that mask on was just me, me, me. [24:12] You know, I'm just running, running, just hustling, just trying to, you know, I'm grinding away. And here she was working two, three jobs. And by the way, when I say two, three jobs, I describe every single damn one of them. [24:22] Part-time bookkeeper, working part-time in a department store, working for aid to adoption of special kids, kids with disabilities. [24:28] intellectual and physical disabilities, working as a waitress at Ramona's restaurant, and just grinding grit. We had roommates. We had people literally – I would walk in. My mom's living in the living room. [24:41] Because she left her bedroom because she's renting out. She's just trying to pay the damn rent. And so what this book is, I'm paying homage to her. [24:49] to thank her for her sacrifice. [24:55] And teaching me resilience, man. [24:58] Teaching me grit. [24:59] And in the process of doing this, also teaching me [25:03] To let go. [25:05] That it's okay. [25:07] You know, take the mask off. Just be yourself. [25:10] And so this book was cathartic. It's not a sanitized politician's book, man. It's not. I hope that's not. I've read plenty of those. I appreciate it. And I try to scrutinize and I kick the tires and I went deeper and I questioned my own relationship to [25:27] You know, my own participation and my own image of that slick guy and all the whole thing. I mean, I get it. I get it.

[25:34] I'm not naive about that. And so this was my opportunity to, you know... [25:38] Tell a different story and also tell the story that my mom and dad deserved. [25:43] So, look, as you were saying earlier, [25:45] it. [25:46] you clearly have a complicated relationship with your father. I can tell reading the book and in this conversation that you revere your mother. [25:54] and all that she did for you and all the sacrifice. But I was struck by a comment made to you, I believe, by your aunt Cindy. Who's, by the way, here tonight, so let's be careful. She's a star in this book. [26:08] Fascinating person. I'd love to meet Cindy. But no, I think she said to you, [26:12] that your parents' inattention to your dyslexia as a boy was abuse. [26:17] Yeah. [26:18] And... [26:19] That was sort of a jarring thing to read, and I was wondering how it felt... [26:23] to you to hear that and whether you agreed. You know, I was... [26:28] And some of you may know this. Most of you probably don't or won't believe it. I can't read speeches. [26:35] You'll never see me if someone hands me a speech and I start to read it. I could do a teleprompter. [26:40] And it just takes... [26:42] Dozens and dozens of hours. [26:44] for dozens of minutes. And it's hard just sort of focusing on that written word, but allow spatially, I'm able to just, you know, stare at the screen, I'm able to do it. And, [26:53] That's... [26:55] You know, my entire life I felt dumb. [26:58] in the back of the classroom. [27:00] You're struggling through school. And by the way, you know, wasn't just me struggling in this again part of the process of writing the book. I

[27:06] I can't even imagine what it's like to be a mother, a single mom. [27:10] trying to read your kids. [27:12] trying to explain it's okay. [27:13] I mean, my mom said something that I'll never forget. I really was angry about it, and I wrote about it in the book. She said, in a fit of frustration with me, she said, it's okay to be average. [27:23] And it's like, damn. [27:26] And I honestly, for years and years, I held a lot of resentment around that until, again, in the process of writing this over the last five years, I realized she was struck. She just was saying, it's OK to just be you. [27:39] You don't have to be someone you're not. You don't have to put that mask on. And so, you know, my aunt saw it up close. She saw the struggle that my mom had. She saw me running out of classrooms, running. [27:49] away from, you know, just constantly running and searching and struggling. And, you know, I just I can't sugarcoat it. And anyone that's got a learning disability, I think you can appreciate this. But at the same time. [28:00] You also start developing these superpowers because you start overcompensating them. [28:03] for the things you can't do as well as everybody else. And that has been the gift and the ability to sort of absorb and create and look outside the lines and paint outside the lines, take risks. You have to take risks, learn from mistakes, have a resiliency. All those things are also part of the journey of having a learning disability and having a learning difference. And so I'm here because of it. [28:26] despite some of those early scars that mark those moments in the book. [28:32] Thank you. [28:33] I was going to ask one thought I had when you were talking about, when you were writing about dyslexia is how does it affect you?

[28:39] writing. Was it a challenge writing the book? Well, the worst part was doing the audio of the book. [28:45] I mean, whoever did the editorial, they deserve a pay raise and hugs. [28:50] You can't pay them enough, Penguin. [28:53] that did it. It took like, I don't know, 20, 30 hours to do the audio, reading the book and reading about your own dyslexia as you're talking, as you're saying you can't read. And going through 25 times that same sentence. So, no, it's [29:08] It's, you know, it's just an interesting. [29:11] You know, the writing process is difficult, but the opportunity to work with a writer, Mark Erickson, was how I was able to. That's why this was a five-year journey. [29:21] process of writing this book and constantly editing and iterating and stress testing. And I was we were joking backstage when writing about your family when writing [29:33] Most of your family's alive. That's not so easy. You better get it right because you got to go to Thanksgiving dinner and explain, you know, why the story is this, not the what you're all saying the story was. Here's the real story. And so this was, yeah, it's an imprecise art writing, particularly a memoir. [29:53] So you didn't grow up wealthy. [29:55] but your family's close relationship with the Gettys put you in proximity with [30:02] as you write about to... [30:04] obscene wealth. Yeah. Um, [30:06] How did that shape – [30:08] your view

[30:09] of [30:10] Wealth, extreme wealth... [30:12] as you got into politics and sort of how you look at the world right now? Well, it certainly shapes the way I look at the world right now. I'm with the single mobs in terms of, you know, where that – [30:22] where the fundamental decision points are in that respect. But it was really interesting. [30:28] You know, my father grew up, one of his best, best friend, as my dad described, and his best, best friend describes, Gordon Getty. They grew up together in high school and became just best friends. And so much of their lives crossed paths. My dad got... [30:45] father of a number of the Getty kids and their travails, their triumphs. My dad's godson was tragically kidnapped in a very famous kidnapping where his ear was cut off. And my father marks so much of my early memories. In fact, a little [31:03] cute story. Paul, Jr. was his name. He came back from the kidnapping and his godfather, my dad, wanted to drive him and his two kids. We were visiting down to Chestnut Street in the Marina District. And there's a story that I tell my sister and I in the back of the car, relatively young age. And my dad just pleaded with us. Whatever you do. [31:26] Don't talk about Paul's ear. [31:29] Just whatever you do. And within a few minutes of Paul getting in the front seat, [31:34] And we're driving along. My dad's driving. And, you know, I'm looking at my sister, Hillary. I'm like. [31:39] And my sister just couldn't help herself. She's staring. She's staring.

[31:44] And she goes, Paul, how many ears do you have? I'm like, oh, God. And luckily, Paul had a great sense of humor. [31:52] But it really marks my first memories of the family. And again, some of the tragedy, not just the tribe. And these are still my days. Some of my closest friends are members of that family. But I never... [32:07] was a member of the family. [32:09] And there's a scene in the book, this crazy, and there's some wonderful stories. [32:14] in here. And it's really honestly worth taking a look. Some that are, you know, [32:19] Just rather ridiculous, including a trip to Spain that I took. [32:23] and you know one of those trips [32:27] And I'll never forget all these fancy people. You were the king. Yeah, I was a kid. I was in high school. Quite a party. I'm thinking I'm all that. You know, again, young man in a hurry in his little suit, thinking he's Pierce Brosnan from Remington Steel. [32:41] Yeah. [32:41] Like actually, literally just discovered hair gel. [32:48] That's a whole nother chapter in the book. [32:51] Forgive me. [32:52] And I'm with... [32:56] Ann and Gordon's four kids on this trip and, you know, relatively the same age and the Getty boys, you know, people, you know, oh, it's wonderful to meet all of you. Which which one are you? [33:06] And I'll never forget, which one are you? [33:09] With such pride. And I said, well, my name's Gavin Newsom. She goes, which one is that? I said, Newsom.

[33:16] And she literally immediately turns. [33:20] Go away, young man. [33:22] And it was such an imposter moment. Like you knew your status. [33:28] You knew your standing. [33:29] And so that was my relationship to that. [33:31] You know, I walked into those doors. [33:34] but I walked back home. [33:37] into my mom's arms. [33:38] And I'll never forget all those trips. Once a year, we would go on these amazing trips with my father and the family. But I'd always come back home. [33:48] And when my mom opened the door, she was not on those trips. She would go invariably, she'd go, Huh... [33:53] Welcome back. [33:54] I hope you had a wonderful time. [33:58] goodnight, and literally never talk about it again. [34:04] And that was the reality. And so, you know, it just shapes... [34:09] You know, it shapes a consciousness of wealth, but in different layers, in a different understanding. The proximity to it, the relationship to it, but never absorbing it. My father, when he passed away, he gave us a second mortgage. [34:24] and a lot of beautiful books in a small town in Dutch Flack, California in Placer County. So even his relationship... [34:32] It never created the abundance that so many people, I think, believe. [34:37] in terms of [34:39] my life and the perception of... [34:41] remarkable privilege, plenty of privilege. [34:44] Plenty of doors that were open. I'm not naive about that. But again, a very different reality than those.

[34:51] Many believe. [35:01] Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix. How are you preparing for springtime cleaning season? I didn't know that was something that you could prepare for. But one thing you could do is upgrade your home with a Helix mattress. Helix is the most awarded mattress brand, tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and Wired. Helix makes buying a mattress easy. Take the Helix Sleep Quiz, and it will match you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs. Get free shipping and seamless delivery. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the U.S. [35:31] experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress so you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges helix offers 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty love helix mattresses i think we've all had helix mattresses in our homes super comfortable very comfortable shows up at your house yeah it's crazy just like the guests that sleep comes out of a box they like it too go to helix sleep.com slash crooked for 27 off site wide that's helix sleep.com slash crooked for 27 off site wide this offer is exclusive to our listeners make sure you [36:01] after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com slash crooked. [36:05] This is the Cocoa Beach on Florida Space Coast podcast. I'm Kelly Bowman, and I have been chasing the stories, meeting the people, and uncovering the little details that help you explore this place like a local. And the more time you spend here, you realize it's not just a beach. The shoreline is a launch pad for catching waves and watching rockets lift into space. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Cocoa Beach on Florida Space Coast,

[36:34] And listen now. [36:38] Speaking of extreme wealth, I mean, you knew a lot of the big luminaries in tech [36:44] When they were broke. [36:45] I mean, you write about... [36:47] Steve Jobs showing you the first iPhone at a party. We were like, wee, wow. Sir Dave Raine was there. I think you said Elon Musk. [36:56] gave you a ride into the set of current TV in the first Tesla, right? Yeah, the first Tesla. So I know I've heard you say, and I agree, that like tech writ large – [37:07] There hasn't been as big of a metamorphosis as people might think, given where some of the CEOs are. But it does seem like there was an inflection point maybe around COVID. [37:15] maybe around Trump's election or re-election that radicalized change some of them or made them speak out. Elon Musk obviously being... [37:23] the number one example. Do you have a theory for what happened? Not only a theory, I actually, interestingly... [37:29] That's part of the book that... [37:31] We're not publishing. [37:32] and I write about it in detail, particularly Elon's relationship to me and the state, [37:37] And stories around how he got us ventilators. [37:41] She never did. [37:42] Huh. [37:42] And how that breakdown started occurring, I started seeing there was libertarian tendencies. [37:49] But we saw something that came out the other side very, very different. [37:52] You know, for a lot of people. [37:54] not just some of these more well-known tech luminaries. And it's been hard to see in every way, shape, or form. Because I write about those early days. Kara Swisher, she wrote an amazing book in this space. And Kara and I were talking about it the other day in San Francisco and comparing notes to the old days. And it was do no harm back then. There was a sense of idealism, and we were connecting the world. And San Francisco was in the center of that entire universe. I remember doing Uber Day and Yelp Day and Twitter Day,

[38:24] like a big deal and the CEOs would show up and I got a t-shirt and I was like the first guy on Twitter and I was like you could go back to my first tweet I'm jogging in the marina you know I didn't know what what does this even mean it's I'm getting a coffee wow this is amazing I have 10 followers and you know and you know and it was when Larry and Sergey were talking about we need to do free wi-fi in San Francisco and and and so it's it's just so radically different and it feels [38:54] Thank you. [38:55] Because it is today. [38:57] And that darkness came on an inaugural. [38:59] You know, when I saw all those guys up there and, you know, and it wasn't just those guys. You know, I joke about that Patriots site and the knee pads. [39:08] You know, the good news is, [39:10] We have new ones in because the last they're the new Trump signature series knee pads, because the last ones sold out, just like many of the tech CEOs, just like the lawyers, just like the universities, just like the law firms, just like so many members of the media have been selling out. [39:29] This country, our republic, [39:31] And so... [39:32] You know... [39:33] We've got to call that out, and we've got to call them out. [39:37] And that's why... And that's why... [39:45] Okay, yeah. [39:48] Anyway. [39:48] All right. We're going to continue the conversation. Let's please let the governor talk. [39:53] This is, we're going to have a conversation up here about the book. That's what we're here for. So, Governor, continue, please.

[40:00] I appreciate it. [40:05] So... [40:06] Look, I think it goes to the zeitgeist of this moment and the moment all of us are feeling, the anxiety. [40:13] the stress, you know. And I think so much without, you know, getting in the last few years. I mean, I think, you know, it's been the last 10 years since Trump came down the escalator. And just... [40:24] You know, this stacking of stress. [40:27] That's reflected in, you know, I signed the first bill. [40:30] banning private prisons, including CoreCivic in California. So that was legislation I advanced. I signed with respect. [40:39] Um. [40:40] Ha! [40:41] And I don't know that there's many. I take a backseat to no one being a fierce person. [40:46] opponent to what's happening. [40:47] on American streets. It happened here first in the state of California. We saw 4,000 of our National Guard troops here in Los Angeles, federalized, 700 active duty Marines, were not sent overseas. They were sent to the second largest city in the United States of America. What did we say last June? [41:03] We said it was a preview of things to come. You saw exactly that happen in D.C. You saw it happen in Chicago. You saw it happen in Minnesota. [41:10] But you also saw the steel in the spines of Minnesotans that stood up in the retreat of Trump and Trumpism, which should give us pause to reflect on some optimism. [41:21] That we can defeat these guys. He's in retreat. [41:25] And so I appreciate the advocacy. I appreciate people standing up. [41:29] All of us have that responsibility. All of us have the role to play.

[41:33] But we are on edge. Communities are on edge. [41:36] You know, when we launched that Prop 50 campaign, Little Tokyo... [41:40] You know, the democracy center. [41:43] And people said, did you see the masked men out front? I'm like, come on, there aren't masked men. We literally went around the side. [41:49] There were folks in masks. [41:51] We didn't know who the hell they were. They weren't marked with anything. [41:55] Representation. [41:57] And then this guy dressed up honestly like he came off a set suit. [42:00] in Burbank. [42:01] In 1930s garb. [42:04] Literally, with a Himmler haircut. A guy named Bovino. [42:07] Gray Bovino. [42:10] And we said at the time that was a preview of things to come. [42:15] So I appreciate the relationship to this moment is shaped. [42:20] by so many moments we have and have had here in the state of California. But it's also marked with the moment of resolve. [42:29] and conviction and and so I I'm here [42:35] You know, in the relationship to my truth and my past, you know, this is not a story about perfection. [42:43] It's a story about perseverance. [42:45] That perseverance of a mom. [42:49] who, you know, as a young child was thrown against a fireplace. [42:54] by her father. [42:56] who put a gun to her head. [42:58] That same grandfather of mine, her father, that spent years as a prisoner of war after the march in Corregidor.

[43:05] And how he came back, a different person, ultimately took his life. [43:10] How my mom took her life. [43:13] In a moment... [43:15] of her own despair because of her own pain. [43:19] Because she was... [43:21] struggling for the second time with breast cancer, and she just couldn't take it. And at a time when it was illegal, [43:27] to do assisted suicide. [43:29] And she found a doctor who had the courage to give up. You know, he was risking his license. [43:33] In the relationship to that moment... [43:38] And in those moments, you never get... [43:41] Again, and how precious this all is. And so I hope we're all standing, including those that are speaking. I appreciate that context. We're all standing in this moment. [43:53] That we all have agency. [43:54] and that we're not bystanders in the world. And I think that's my history. My father's fierce advocate. He was an environmental warrior. [44:03] I mean, our first pet, this is hardly relatable. [44:07] This is a weird pet. [44:09] Yeah. This is not on your bingo card. [44:12] Our first pet was an otter. [44:16] What does the otter eat? [44:19] Your fingers and toes and anything he sees in the house. [44:25] This jumped out at me in the book. I literally wrote down, you had a fucking pet otter growing up, question mark. And you eventually gave it away, right? Did you have to... [44:33] We had to give it away because he bit the mailman and my mom. That's fair. This was the first act of resistance in my home. My mom said it's.

[44:41] Either the otter or you, Dad, my father. [44:47] I say that to make a point, by the way. [44:50] His name was Potter the Otter. That's a good name. Why not? [44:54] Yeah. [44:55] But it marks my father just as a fierce environmental warrior and environmental justice and racial justice, economic justice. He was a Sars-Schreiber Democrat. He was a Bobby Kenny Democrat. He was an activist judge on the California Court of Appeals. And he marks my sense of idealism and daring. But that grit, that hard work and the energy of my mom, and it's a combination of all those things. And it's a combination that has allowed me to get through a recall. [45:25] and try to sort of mark a relationship to this moment to do better, to do more, and recognize that we have to do better and more. Because... [45:33] People are suffering. People are struggling. [45:35] And we all have to raise the bar of expectations and accountability and self-reflection. And so this is a book about self-reflection. It's a book about... [45:45] *sad* [45:47] Taking a deep breath. [45:48] Letting go. [45:50] And just being yourself and putting it out there. And I hope people... [45:53] You've seen with me, you know, I'm willing to go out there on a limb. I'm putting a mirror up to Trump and Trumpism. Check out my social media, you know. Go to that Patriot store. [46:06] You know, I'm... [46:08] And I'm in the arena, man. And I'm not perfect. [46:11] And I know you want more and better. I get it.

[46:14] And I'm just I'm I'm not trying to be any more goes to your question. [46:19] Someone I'm not. [46:21] And I just, I'm who I am. [46:23] You don't have to like the book. I can't. [46:25] I can't control the third thing. [46:28] I can only control what I can control. And I... [46:32] It's... [46:33] it's [46:33] what I learned in this process. [46:35] And that's why it's been a really remarkable gift to be able to tell my story and to be able to dedicate it to those that will carry on the story. And that's my precious four kids, to Dutch Brooklyn and Hunter and... [46:50] in Montana and to my extraordinary wife [46:54] Who's also here with me tonight, as you know from the introduction and to make sure I don't screw that up. [47:00] Ha! [47:02] Because at the end of the day, we could talk about our resume values. No one gives a damn about those. It's your eulogy. [47:08] And it's that relationship to your truth. [47:11] It's your relationship to others. [47:13] And it's your relationship to the world we're trying to build and how we can be fierce advocates for each other. [47:22] Speaking of that world, I want to talk about something in attention in politics that I think about a lot that I think you have dealt with. [47:34] against the best wishes of your mother. You did go into politics. You become mayor of San Francisco. And... [47:40] When you're mayor, when you were mayor, you write about this. [47:43] You win against...

[47:44] The law, the California Constitution, the Democratic Party, most Americans. Not to start with the law. Even with Californians. [47:51] when you allowed the first same-sex marriage to take place in San Francisco. [48:01] No one was applauding back then, I assure you. [48:04] Well, yeah. I mean, that's what I think, you know, you know, reading it, you get the idea of sort of the politics and the and sort of like the tidal wave of public opinion that you were up against them. [48:15] You said, and you wrote in the book... [48:18] that the reason you did it is because simply... [48:21] It was the right thing to do. [48:23] which is refreshing. [48:28] You also called the sort of go it slow, I think you said, admonition. [48:33] the mother's milk of democratic politics. And there is a lot of go slow admonition out there. [48:39] But, you know, we also live through elections. You've lived through many elections. After this last election in 2024, we've all been [48:46] going through this process, what went wrong? And you recently said Democrats need to spend less time on [48:52] identity politics and pronouns and more on tabletop issues. And the question is, because you've now been on both sides of this, how do you square those two potentially contradictory things [49:08] Ideas. [49:09] Yeah, I don't know that they are. [49:11] Look, my why is to stand up for ideals and strike out against injustice.

[49:16] And I don't come to that flippantly. I've really absorbed that. Stand up for ideals. [49:21] strike out against injustice. And if I'm on the fence on a bill or a fence on a personal decision or a professional, even business decision, that's where the default is. [49:31] And that's reflected in marriage equality in 2004. Remember, in 2004, we were just finishing up the debate [49:39] around domestic partnerships. [49:42] We weren't even into separate... [49:44] is equal. Hmm. [49:45] which was civil unions back then. [49:48] And that's where, by the way... [49:50] A lot of my family was. [49:52] Old Irish Catholic family, the west side. If you get my drift to San Francisco, the church. [49:57] The Irish Catholic Church, where my dad was. [50:00] And I describe in the book this scene where he kind of had an intervention with his my uncle, Brandon, his brother and this fierce warrior for justice. Joe Kachet, one of our state's countries, great lawyers and Kachet. They had an intervention the night before I was going to move forward with one marriage. There's a whole nother story there. [50:20] And they're like, why are you doing this? You just got elected. [50:23] Like, things are good. You're relatively young. You were the youngest mayor in the hundred years. You know, you know. [50:28] You got plenty of time. [50:30] You don't need to do this. No one asks you to do this. [50:33] Folks don't want you to do this. We don't want you to do this. And I really got into it. And they started really challenging me. And I couldn't answer. [50:42] And in a fit of frustration, that's when I said, I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.

[50:48] And it wasn't I wasn't trying to win an argument. I was exacerbated and I was like, it's the right thing. [50:56] And I'll never forget, Joe looked at my dad and my uncle and he said, boys, it's the right thing to do. [51:02] And that was the end of it. [51:04] Next morning, I married Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin. They've been together 47 years. And, you know, 4,000... [51:12] 4,035 other couples from 46 states and six countries. [51:17] got married and what we refer to in San Francisco, not as the summer of love, but the winter of love. But there wasn't a lot of love, to your point, I was getting from the Democratic Party. You know, we had the convention later that year. [51:31] You know, I won't name names, but folks like you really should focus on homelessness in San Francisco. You don't have to go like you really don't have to. Certainly you're not going to be speaking. [51:43] See, you really don't have to show up. And in the hard part was a lot of the folks that showed up for me on election night who all universally gave me the same advice. [51:53] It's the advice we all get. [51:54] Young man, [51:55] Just do what you think is right. Those same folks were out there saying, [52:01] Because you think you're doing it. [52:05] And there were folks that ultimately blamed me [52:08] And this is the serious part of your question. [52:11] And this is what I back to scrutinize, not sanitize. [52:14] for the election outcome. [52:16] Too much, too soon, too fast. [52:18] You know, I can wax on about letters from Birmingham jail, which I did.

[52:23] which I reread. [52:25] or maybe read for the first time, they meant something very different. [52:29] It's always the right time to do the right thing. [52:31] Thanks, sir. [52:33] And so, fast forward. [52:36] Fast forward. [52:38] to the conversations we're all having today. [52:41] and what we need to do to get back into power. [52:44] And so it's a legitimate question. [52:46] So you have the tactics, the electoral question, [52:50] And then you have the policymaking question. [52:53] And I just think the Democratic Party... [52:56] needs to be a little, and forgive this word, [53:00] Ruthless about winning. [53:02] We just have to be. [53:05] And so that's the second part of your question. [53:09] Thank you. [53:10] We're just trying to win arguments. [53:13] Right after... [53:15] Right after Donald Trump called Greg Abbott and said he was quote unquote entitled to five seats. [53:20] because he knows he's going to get slacked in the midterm elections. He knows he's going to lose. So he's trying to rig the election. That's one of ten things he's doing. We could talk about the other nine. [53:30] is doing mid-decade redistricting. [53:33] I imagine he thought, and frankly, I may have even thought, [53:36] our reaction would be maybe like to call you guys up, see if you can help maybe draft an op ed. [53:43] That we can place in the New York Times. Wow. To try to win an argument, you know. [53:49] Gosh, darn it, this is so wrong. [53:52] And, you know,

[53:54] And we responded very differently. We said, look, we've got to fight fire with fire. We're going to lose this country. We're going to lose our republic. And so I just think... [54:04] At the core, my humble... [54:07] Belief, guys, is... [54:09] At the core of our party problem is my humble belief. [54:12] is... [54:13] Strength. [54:14] We've got to be stronger in our convictions, our courage. We've got to start to dominate the narrative again. [54:22] We've got to win not just the argument, but we've got to address the attention deficit that we have. [54:30] There's an asymmetry. These guys have propaganda networks. [54:33] It's Pravda. It's a primetime lineup. I mean, my gosh, Laura Ingraham is in business with Trump Jr. [54:41] That's happening in the United States of America. [54:43] I mean, it's pravda. [54:45] You know, listening to Hannity. [54:47] In these guys. [54:48] and Murdoch Inc. It's surround sound 24/7. They're flooding the zone. Donald Trump understands this. So we can no longer be conventional in our politics is ultimately what I'm arguing for. [55:11] Pod Save America is brought to you by Armra Colostrum. [55:14] Feeling sluggish? Feeling bloated? Not like yourself? Life bombards us with silent threats. Processed foods, artificial light, and modern stressors. They disrupt your gut. They drain your energy. They weaken your immune system. Your body isn't broken. It just needs the right inputs. Armra colostrum is nature's original blueprint for health. Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that fortify gut health. Fuel fitness recovery and strengthen immune systems, supporting your best performance every day. Take back control of your health. Probiotics are touted

[55:44] solution, but they only address one part of the four-part gut wall. Arma Colostrum naturally fortifies your entire gut wall system, nourishing your microbiome and strengthening the gut wall architecture, helping to guard against everyday threats. Colostrum is packed with bioactive nutrients that work at the cellular level to ignite inside-out transformation for whole body benefits, including hair, skin, gut, and more. Not seeing results with your current routine, the bioactive nutrients in Arma Colostrum promote your cells' natural renewal processes to support [56:14] muscle, and whole body vitality. Research has even shown that colostrum can enhance nutrient absorption, promote lean muscle building, and improve endurance while fueling cellular repair regeneration for faster recovery. We've worked out a special deal for our audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armra.com slash crooked or enter code crooked. Get 30% off your first subscription order. That's A-R-M-R-A.com slash crooked. [56:40] This is the Cocoa Beach on Florida Space Coast podcast. I'm Kelly Bowman, and I have been chasing the stories, meeting the people, and uncovering the little details that help you explore this place like a local. And the more time you spend here, you realize it's not just a beach. The shoreline is a launch pad for catching waves and watching rockets lift into space. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Cocoa Beach on Florida Space Coast, [57:09] And listen now. [57:11] So the line that stuck out to Tommy was about the otter. For me...

[57:19] For me, it was this line. You write this about becoming a father, quote, [57:23] I could count on one hand the times I actually changed a diaper [57:28] You have four children, sir. [57:30] This was the first child. How did you pull that off? You know, this was the edit my wife made to the book. [57:39] I don't think, Jen, it's that bad. But like I said, I was scrutinizing, not sanitizing. This young man in a hurry was out and about. You know, I was mayor of San Francisco. I was showing up at events. [57:51] And that was a pattern interrupt. You know, in psychology, we talk about scratching the record for those old enough to know what a record is. [57:58] You know, a pattern erupt where Jen's like, get your shit together. [58:03] And there were a number of those pattern interrupts that I write honestly about. [58:08] Look, one of the things that I imagine, you know, Jen's here, got to be careful. [58:12] Heh. [58:13] that she was wondering when she married me, like, what... [58:16] You know, what kind of husband are you going to be? And then shortly after, truly, what kind of dad are you going to be? [58:21] Are you going to be your dad? [58:22] You know, she loved my father. My father was present. [58:26] in my life later on. [58:28] But she was also deeply aware he wasn't when we were growing up. [58:32] And that stress test came home in this beautiful bundle of joy. [58:37] Montana. [58:39] Our firstborn Montana Tessa. [58:42] who wasn't there. [58:43] my mom [58:45] Seville Newsome. [58:46] And... [58:47] And I didn't know until that moment. And you guys have had this, right? Right.

[58:52] You don't know. You can intellectualize it all day. [58:56] But I had something that I'm not sure my dad ever had. [58:59] And I, boy, Dad, you missed it. [59:03] I had this thing that went from here, and it just... [59:05] Burst in here. [59:07] And it was like this baritone, this deep, [59:09] like, oh, whoa, whoa. [59:12] This light, this sort of like, oh my God. [59:15] to truly understand love at a different level. [59:19] That said, [59:21] I didn't necessarily love changing diapers. [59:24] And Jen, who's a fierce advocate, has written and done all kinds of documentaries. [59:31] one called Fair Play, [59:33] which is about partnership in the household. [59:39] She kind of reminded me, you got to get your shit together. You got to step up your game. And so that was marked... [59:46] For my first daughter's diapers, I made up for it, sir, John, with all the other kids and continue to work harder to make up for equal time. [59:57] Impairing, though equal may be illusory. I'm still working on that. [1:00:02] One other thing that jumped out at me in the book is you talk about election night, [1:00:07] You get elected governor, you wake up the next day, you walk out of the hotel room, [1:00:12] And there's two... [1:00:14] California State Patrolman, who then become your ubiquitous part of your life, your security detail. And you're then followed by staff everywhere you go. And you lose your anonymity, you lose your freedom. I think you say freedom is the price you paid for the privilege of the job.

[1:00:31] Um... [1:00:33] I was wondering how that impacted you. [1:00:35] And if you thought about how [1:00:37] There are other jobs that [1:00:38] where that problem may be exacerbated. Even the process of running is exponentially worse. And if that bothers you, if that worries you, is that something you think about? [1:00:49] You can't go for a walk. You can't drive yourself in a car. You can't go to fucking drive-thru. [1:00:53] uh... [1:00:56] Look, everyone's rolling their lights, whatever. Yeah. Oh, it's so tough for you. [1:01:02] Um... [1:01:03] But that is there is a thing, you know, so in the book I describe, you know, just running for office and being able to run around on the streets and be able to go to coffee clutches and stores and, you know, have some anonymity here a little bit. You know, people angry, pissed off, yelling here and, you know, you should do this, that fine. And then there's an election. And I literally went to bed. [1:01:24] And then truly, I woke up the next morning and didn't get a lot of sleep and sort of blurry. I had walked out and I was like these two strangers right outside the door. I'm both. I'm like, oh, sorry. What's you know? Excuse me. [1:01:35] And I walked down. They started walking with me. I'm like, who the hell are you guys? [1:01:40] And it literally was that moment. [1:01:43] that I have not had one without... [1:01:47] Some semblance of that. [1:01:48] You know, guys in the car, you're trying to make a phone call. Hey, honey, how are you? [1:01:52] I'm fine. [1:01:53] You want to talk about it? I'm fine. What's wrong? Nothing. You know, there's a city right there. It's sort of this relationship to anonymity where, you know, there was...

[1:02:03] There was... [1:02:04] a year and a half where literally I wouldn't get on an airplane, not [1:02:09] for me. [1:02:10] but for everyone else on the plane. Because I'm like, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know, I know. [1:02:15] People are like, this, that, the whole thing. Because I get it. Back to the stacking of stress. Back to the intention that we're all feeling. [1:02:23] And and so I, you know, allowed me to drive back and forth to L.A. more often and spend more time in Central Valley than any governor in history, which was also important. But, yeah, it is you lose that you lose the serendipity. And I remember as mayor, I lost a little of it, but not a lot. So every week a true story like and I wrote about a little bit every every Friday. [1:02:42] I would walk to work and I'd walk through the Tenderloin of San Francisco. [1:02:46] And I didn't need the focus group. I didn't need to see where the polls were. [1:02:49] You got the pulse of how people felt. [1:02:52] in that relationship, [1:02:54] to people's struggles and aspirations and desperation, especially in that part of San Francisco. And I miss that. And I think... [1:03:02] Our politics misses that. [1:03:04] You want your elected officials. It's management by walking around. You want to walk... [1:03:08] through a skid row, but not with an entourage. You don't want to be that guy. You want to be able to absorb... [1:03:13] and feel and understand how you're really doing. And I think you're right with the president. I mean, that's something... [1:03:20] I can't even imagine, and you guys were up close to that. [1:03:23] How that disconnection. [1:03:25] to your truth. [1:03:26] And that relationship to that truth and how you absorb it and how you feel it differently than intellectualizing and poll testing it. How I think it does shape our politics and how do you overcompensate for that? Especially now with the violence, right? Especially with Trump.

[1:03:41] People shooting at Trump, you know, the Charlie Kirk assassination. I mean, the distance between politicians and the people who they're serving or, you know, trying to get votes from is only getting greater and greater. [1:03:52] This is like an actual real thing. [1:03:56] And this is where, you know, I think about any future I think about in relationship to my kids. You know, when I talk about that recall. [1:04:04] We had to homeschool my oldest daughter. [1:04:07] I will never forget, I helped her with her speech. [1:04:11] that she gave in our living room. [1:04:13] for eighth grade graduation. [1:04:15] And I was so proud of her because she looked up the whole time. [1:04:18] And I said, look above someone's head because they'll see you thinking. And she was staring at me with a big smile. [1:04:23] she gave this beautiful speech but she gave it just a [1:04:26] Jen and the kids and her brothers and sisters because she... [1:04:31] the attacks at the school. [1:04:32] I hate your daddy, I hate this, and this and that. And we had, this again, we all had this, protesters for almost a year and a half. [1:04:41] And now, to your point about what's happened. [1:04:43] This is another level of stuff. [1:04:45] And, like, trust me, you don't know... [1:04:48] You don't know an infinitesimal amount. [1:04:50] Of the stuff that comes in. [1:04:52] And that's why the temperature definitely, I mean, we have to. [1:04:55] to take action. [1:04:56] that temperature down. And I do worry about it. I mean, we talk about... [1:05:00] You know, when you send troops to American city, not overseas. [1:05:04] this sort of lack of civility. [1:05:08] in this concern that we all have, are we... [1:05:10] crossing those red lines.

[1:05:13] Are we at war with... [1:05:14] one another. And [1:05:15] Forgive me, because I know and forgot the long-windedness. [1:05:19] But we've had this conversation when I went on your podcast because you were asking me about mine. [1:05:24] And thank you, the one of you. There you go. Please applaud. I've got one listener. The man has a podcast. That's the sound of a download. [1:05:33] But... [1:05:33] But I was... [1:05:34] People felt I crossed the line because I was reaching across the aisle. [1:05:40] Because it was making the case Bill Clinton made for years and years, divorce is not an option. [1:05:44] We're just, you know, it's not. [1:05:46] Just because I don't want you to exist doesn't mean you're not going to persist. [1:05:50] And we just have to define the terms of the future. And so I started reaching out to people I vehemently disagreed with. And a lot of folks were angry, saying, how are you platforming these people? Why are you talking to that son of a bitch? [1:06:02] But it's honestly was in my relationship to this reality, man. We got to take the temperature down. [1:06:07] We can punch Trump back, we can have the line, but at the same time, man, [1:06:11] You know, we all want to be loved. We all need to be loved. [1:06:15] We all want to be protected, connected, respected, and we've just got to move. I appreciate the resistance frame, but I think all of us back to... [1:06:24] You know. [1:06:25] We want to talk about renewal. [1:06:27] We want to talk about the rebirth of our civic spirit and civic pride and our civic duty. We're all waiting for that moment. That moment's going to come. [1:06:36] I don't think it's here yet. [1:06:38] You know, we're in this struggle. So many ways the obstacle is the way. [1:06:43] We'll define that.

[1:06:44] But all of us look forward. [1:06:46] to when we can turn... [1:06:47] the page on this moment, and we can restore some civility and grace. [1:06:55] So the epilogue of the book, you write a lot about [1:07:00] your relationship with Trump, your interactions with Trump. We could talk about it forever. We will not do that. I don't want to talk about my... [1:07:07] tour with Trump in the bedroom? Well, that's what this one. So the thing the thing that that Tommy and I really want to know is. [1:07:15] Tell us more about [1:07:16] about the reaction on Jared Kushner's face when... [1:07:21] Donald Trump... [1:07:22] said in front of him and you, [1:07:25] that he wished... [1:07:27] Ivanka had married Tom Brady instead. [1:07:30] Yeah. Seems kind of mean. Was he crying? [1:07:35] It's a weird thing to say to your son. I was crying for Jared. I thought, I mean, how could someone, it was so dehumanizing. [1:07:43] in front of his own son-in-law, [1:07:45] Saying it wasn't his first choice. [1:07:49] And if Trump can do that to his son-in-law in Marine One... [1:07:53] in front of strangers, [1:07:56] That sums him up, man. [1:07:58] That sums him up. And it's an interesting, it's a fun little story. [1:08:02] where Trump talks about how Ivanka didn't call Tom Brady back. [1:08:07] And she's like, what the hell? Why are you calling Tom Brady back? It's Tom Brady. [1:08:11] And she goes, well, Dad, I'm in love. [1:08:13] And Trump is telling the story and he goes, well, who are you in love with? With Jared. He goes, you mean the guy whose father was in jail?

[1:08:21] He says it in front of Jared right there. [1:08:26] Said, can you believe? And he like hits me on the leg. Said, can you believe Tom Brady? She didn't do Tom Brady. I was like, there's Jared's right there. [1:08:33] Damn. [1:08:35] That is so weird. So weird. So weird. The story brought me joy, though. It's petty, but... Yeah, I know. Jared sucks, but I mean... No one deserves that. [1:08:49] Also [1:08:50] Tom Brady's everybody's first choice, if we're being honest. Look at this guy. Take a number, Ivanka. What are you talking about? Governor, you've been so generous with your time, everyone. The book is Young Man in a Hari. [1:09:02] It is honestly, it's a really good book. I appreciate it. It's a really good book. Thank you, guys. Thank you for being here. Thank you for reading the book. Thank you, John. I mean, thank you guys all for being here. I appreciate you. Thank you, guys, very, very much. [1:09:19] That's our show. Thank you to Gavin Newsom for joining us. One little housekeeping note before we go. Love It or Leave It is coming to D.C. April 23rd at the Lincoln Theater. It's Love It's traditional pre-White House Correspondents Dinner show, and it's always a ton of fun. Maybe even more so this year, since Trump will actually be attending the Correspondents Dinner itself. Love It will be announcing some big guests soon. And if you can't make it to the D.C. show, Love It or Leave It is live in L.A. every Thursday night. [1:09:44] for DC and LA are on sale now at cricket.com slash events. Love it. Tommy and I will be back on Tuesday. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, and...

[1:09:59] YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. [1:10:00] Also, please consider leaving us a review [1:10:03] that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producer is Saul Rubin. [1:10:10] Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Churlin is our executive editor. [1:10:16] Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. [1:10:18] The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. [1:10:25] Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [1:10:45] . [1:10:50] you [1:10:52] My name is Dr. Corey Howe, also known as Shred Doctor. Cocoa Beach being the origination of the word Stoke, 100% believe that. We have some of the most world champion surfers originating here. We have so many outdoor water sports activities. We have space shells launching off into the atmosphere. Suns always shine and people are nice and happy. This is where everyone comes to vacation and live. I mean, what else is there not to be stoked about? Cocoa Beach, the birthplace of Stoke. [1:11:22] you