Defying Aging: Preventative AI’s Game-Changer with Dr Eric Topol

[00:00] Looking for more than just a job? Brightview Senior Living is opening Brightview North Facts in Fairfax, Virginia. And we're hiring across all departments, from dining and caregiving to maintenance, sales, and leadership. This is your chance to be part of something from the very beginning. At Brightview North Facts, you'll find a team that supports you, values you, and a career that can grow with you. Text BVJOBS to [redacted phone] or visit [00:30] you [00:30] Hey everybody, this episode with Dr. Eric Topple is amazing. We go into... [00:34] AI in medicine, we talk about, you know, why we should be looking at our health span versus our lifespan. We're going to talk through some numbers that are going to be mind blowing, but Dr. Eric is going to give you a lot of tips that you can use right now to increase your health span. We don't talk about or believe in reversing aging. We just need to make sure that we understand that it's going to happen. But what can we do to have a prolonged health span? [01:01] So... [01:02] Without further ado, this is my good friend and someone that you're going to get a lot of wisdom from. [01:08] Dr. Eric Topper. [01:13] You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning. [01:25] helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged.

[01:39] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Mick Unplugged. And today I have someone who I've been wanting to talk to for a long time. Someone that has really shaped a lot of thoughts that I have around AI and discipline and health and strategies. He is none other than... [01:57] Then the amazing, the brilliant, the guy that's going to change your life today, Dr. Eric Topple. Dr. Eric, how are you doing today, sir? Well, thank you. That's an awfully kind introduction. Much appreciated. I mean, I mean every word of it. [02:11] You are definitely doing some game-changing things out there. I love to talk to my guests about there be cause, that thing that's deeper than your why. [02:20] right? That passion that drives you. And you've done so much in your illustrious career. What's your because today? Why do you keep doing the things that you do? I just think we can do so much better to prevent the major diseases, not just the area that I've been in for my career, cardiovascular, but also neurodegenerative, preventing Alzheimer's, and also preventing cancer. We are not taking advantage of all the golden opportunities, [02:50] it. It's frustrating, but we will. Eventually, we'll get there. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And again, you're doing so much. You have done so much and you continue to do groundbreaking things in your industry. When did you know that that was going to become a passion of yours to make change and to make impact? Well, I guess when I was

[03:10] training. I was at UC San Francisco and I was in the middle of really a revolution in cardiology where the beginning of angioplasty and clot dissolving therapies and all sorts of things are happening very quickly. And that gave me a sense that, well, that's not a one-off. You know, why don't we do this more often? [03:32] Why don't we start to really take medicine to levels that are not the status quo, which is typical. It's a slow-moving field. [03:41] And we need to get on the accelerator. And there's too many people that are suffering, that are dying. [03:49] or have whatever disability. And that could be as cleaning up the problems of medical errors, or it could be coming up with new strategies to prevent diseases. And we're just not doing that. Everything we do essentially in medicine, you know, treat, treat, treat. Where is the prevent, prevent, prevent? And so we now are empowered to go that route. And it's a lot like what I [04:19] change. We need to do that more frequently than every decade or two. You know, again, all the things that you're doing, you have a new book coming out, Super Agers. And what I love about this book and the things that you're talking about, [04:34] It's evidence-based, right? Like you're not just giving hyperbole. You're not giving theory. You're not doing the what ifs.

[04:41] You're not trying to scare people. You're talking about evidence-based topics and help. Could you [04:48] For the viewers and listeners, talk about Super Agers, where the idea come from, and where do you want people to get out of this? Yeah, I think... [04:56] Many people in your audience are like me, where [05:00] They have a terrible family history. When I was growing up, I think I remember the most is going to all these funerals of my relatives and my aunts and my uncles, my grandparents, dying all at young ages. And I figured, well, I'm condemned to the same fate. So I've always been interested in genetics and [05:18] you know, health span, life span. And we did a study we called the Welderly. [05:23] and the elderly, basically another name for them, are super-agers, we were able to find 1,400 people who were average age 89 who'd never been sick. [05:35] in their lives, and they were on no medication. Now, that's a rarefied group, and we did whole genome sequencing on these people, and we found very little from their DNA sequence to account for their elderly superager status. Now, there's a small genetic component, [05:53] but it's far less than we ever had assumed. And so that actually felt that's liberating. [05:59] I might not have to [06:00] succumb like my road is. And I think it's an eye-opening finding. And then the question is, [06:06] What does it count? [06:08] for healthy aging. And we do know, as you mentioned, the evidence

[06:12] The body of evidence, of course, supports healthy lifestyles. You don't have to go to [06:19] or longevity clinics, or take [06:21] these anti-aging supplements that have no data [06:24] Or other very expensive things like, you know, plasmapheresis, [06:29] unproven stem cells, all kinds of, you know, supplement stuff. Actually, first off is concentrating on healthy anti-inflammatory diet and lots of physical activity, not just aerobic, but also strength resistance training and sleep quality, really important. But the list goes on. [06:49] about being out in nature, having a purpose, [06:53] you know, having lots of social engagement. So we've learned a lot about lifestyle factors. It's not all about that. The other thing we learned that I reviewed in Super Agers is the immune system is really big. We need to keep our immune system healthy because as we old, this term immunosenescence is prone to promote inflammation, another term, [07:23] that and not let our immune system lose its integrity as we age. Some people, [07:28] The super-agers, they're just naturally got a great immune system. But most of us, we have not the ideal progression as time goes on where our immune system loses some of its protective capabilities or it gets dysregulated. We got to prevent that if we're going to get our health span extended to the max. Yeah. So speaking of that with the immune system, for those that are watching or listening,

[07:58] immune system so that we can become one of those super-agers? Well, one great example, I mean, you're young, but if you're over 50, [08:05] "You better get a shingles vaccine." [08:08] It's actually pretty incredible. Now, [08:11] As of this week, there'll be four studies, natural experiments, large countries, U.S., Canada, Wales, Australia, you know, collectively millions of people. And the people who got the shingles vaccine had 20% or more reduction of dementia. Most of, of course, is Alzheimer's, about 80%. And then today is a report about how a shingles vaccine slows the aging process in people. [08:41] Thank you. [08:41] it's having a big effect [08:43] through the herpes zoster, which is what causes shingles. But what we've now seen is that the immune system is really amped up. It's made healthier. And that's what accounts for this slowing aging and a less risk of developing Alzheimer's disease. So we got one thing right now, which is, [09:03] If this was a drug, people would be taking this left and right. And, you know, Alzheimer's is probably the most feared, dreaded disease of all people. [09:11] So we have something and we're going to build on that, you know, medications, [09:17] other vaccines. Maybe there'll ultimately be a vaccine just to prevent neurodegenerative disease. But that's a big jump in our knowledge base, and it's really exciting.

[09:28] And it goes beyond, of course, lifestyle factors. That's awesome. You know, one of the things that I've been passionate about as our society continues to evolve is artificial intelligence, so AI. I personally believe that [09:42] In the health space, in the longevity space, AI is actually more powerful than it is in any other spaces because people forget the intelligence part of AI, right? Like a lot of times when we're thinking AI, we're thinking of bot or we're thinking of automation, but that's not really AI. Those technologies have existed for years and years and years and years and actually decades and decades. [10:06] But in the health space, AI is making huge impacts. How are you viewing AI for the good, for the bad, or for the indifferent? Yeah, well, there's kind of three big parts to that story, which, you know, I agree with you. Firstly, there's the ability to improve accuracy of diagnosis. We've already seen that proven for images like mammograms and colonoscopy, picking up polyps, and many other forms of imaging of scans. [10:36] very clear cut that the AI sees things that human experts can't see, won't see, ever see. [10:43] So that's one. The second is the ability to give the gift of time back to clinicians, because they're very much burdened with data clerk functions. [10:55] And they're not even looking at patients. They're typing on a keyboard. And now we're seeing how natural language processing and all the other downstream functions of an automated synthetic note. So there's total attention being paid one-to-one, eye-to-eye, and there's a presence back. But moreover, we're seeing randomized studies show that it provides the gift of time. It's a big morale booster. So we're getting back that patient-doctor relationship gradually, and that's going to be big.

[11:25] think is the biggest contribution in the future is using AI to prevent diseases. That is taking a [11:32] all the data of a person, many, many layers of data, and using that to know who's at high risk, and getting all over that person, so they never get a important age-related disease. [11:45] These are the three big areas. Now, it doesn't mean that AI is perfect. There's liabilities, of course, but I'm very sanguine about all three of these being a big deal. Yeah. You often emphasize the importance of not just lifespan, but you talk about the health span. Break that down for us for those that are listening or watching. Well, the average American health span ends at age 64, right? [12:09] Because they have a major... [12:12] chronic disease, mostly age-related diseases, cardiovascular, a cancer, beginning of a neurodegenerative disease. [12:22] the [12:22] Lifespan. [12:24] As you know, in the US, averages [12:26] about 79, a couple years more for women than men. So that's a 15-year age gap. [12:33] between the end of a person's average health span to the end of their life. Now, that 15 years shouldn't be. It should be that their health span and lifespan [12:43] are close. That big loss of nearly 15 years, that's what we have to start to, you know, people want to have longevity and live to 120. That's not worth anything if you're basically demented and frail. I mean, we can do that today. We could put you on a life support system and keep your life forever, but you're afunctional.

[13:04] What good is that? So we have to get this maximal extension of healthspan and stop this terrible gap. [13:11] that exists today between healthspan and lifespan. And this longevity craze is wrong. We shouldn't be going after longevity. We should have a healthspan interest. That's the primary objective. How do we achieve this, right? Like, how do we, I mean, I know you're doing your part in articulating this message, but how do we really just let people understand that this is a thing and steps that they can take in order to improve their healthspan? Yeah, so first of all, we could accept [13:41] going to age. You know, that's kind of a normal process. Yeah. [13:45] Instead of trying to block aging and reverse aging, we're going to age, but let's not accept the age-related diseases. So in the weeks ahead, we're starting the first prevention of Alzheimer's trial by taking all the data in high-risk people and that randomizing to very intensive, continuous lifestyle improvement. [14:07] versus just providing some educational materials. [14:11] in 1,200 people who are at high risk for Alzheimer's will, will be, [14:15] be able to tell whether we're making headway. And then we'll start with different medications that have a lot of promise on top of lifestyle. So we believe Alzheimer's ultimately will be a preventable disease, as will be most common cancers and heart disease. But it's going to take a while. You have to have the proof of concept. You have compelling evidence. But we have to get started on this. And you couldn't do this without multimodal AI,

[14:45] and that includes genes and proteins and biomarkers. It's not very expensive, [14:51] But it relies on great analytics. And I think that's what's the, that's why I'm so excited about the new era of prevention. So in your estimate, and this is about to be a bad question. I shouldn't even ask it in the way that I'm getting at. So I went to the doctor for a regular checkup a few weeks ago. And I was asking him and the team about using AI to help with diagnosis or with [15:15] symptom prevention and all this. And he said, that's not something I'm comfortable with. And I don't want to experiment with that. Like, why is that mindset still there? And how do we change that mindset? Yeah, it's very hard to change anything in medicine, as I've learned over four decades. [15:32] Unfortunately. [15:33] It's lots of resistance among physicians to incorporate AI, especially when it's proven. I mean, there's many things that we're still waiting for, you know, that kind of compelling evidence. But it's sad because there are things that should definitely be part [15:49] of daily routine medical practice and care. There's just a gap that's time and it's just really unfortunate because it's not delivering state-of-the-art care for patients. Oh, wow, the AI is going to take over my role. Doctors are typically control freaks. They want to control everything and hear AI is coming in and encroaching their control factor. I mean, there's lots of things here that [16:14] account for this reluctance to accept or embrace AI. So here's something you don't know, and I waited till we were live together to tell you this. Ground Truths, your newsletter. My mom, who

[16:27] will unsubscribe to any and everything in the world, right? The one thing that she subscribes to that she can't wait for the latest and greatest is Ground Truths. I love to give you the floor to talk to us about Ground Truths, your newsletter. I'm going to make sure we have links to that and obviously links to the book as well, too, but... [16:45] I'd love to talk about that newsletter because my mom loves it. Oh, well, that's fantastic. Thanks so much for passing that along. Well, four years ago, I started reluctantly to do this newsletter, which is now kind of newsletter and podcast kind of alternating weekly or if not more frequent. And what I learned was so much better than using Twitter or these other social media [17:15] It's not like, you know, 240 characters. And I started to realize that this was helping people, you know, get the latest information. [17:25] medical advances or talk, hear from the leading figures in the world of biomedicine. And [17:33] It's been fun for me. I really, I love doing it. I have another one I'm going to work on this week is the big jump in new shingles vaccine. [17:43] This happening just this week. [17:46] But, you know, I really want to have people aware most of the time is stuff that's not covered in the media. And there's big things happening. And a lot of people these days are... [17:56] are not very optimistic.

[17:58] for various reasons. But I tried to show, hey, you know what? We're making great progress. And we're going to get to the point [18:05] of preventing these dreaded diseases and a whole different practice of medicine. Whether that's changing how we [18:12] screen for cancer, how we prevent cancer, all the things that we can do to get on top of preventing heart disease. I mean, there's something every day. I have to pick the things that [18:23] each week that deserve spotlighting. But it's fun. It takes some time to do it, but it's so great to get the feedback from your mother. No, again, my mom will unsubscribe to anything, but she... [18:36] She loves the fact that what you send out is informative. And this is me and me only. I'll say it because it's the truth. A lot of folks that have newsletters, they're trying to show you how smart they are or getting you to click into something else where you're there. Like she feels like you are genuinely in your heart is to help people and to give them information that can help them. And so that's kudos to you. Well, thanks. No, I really appreciate it. It means a lot to me because, you know, I don't have any. There's no sponsors. There's no ads. [19:06] You know, it's free. It's something that is the main purpose is to spread truth. [19:12] you know, the word, spread what's really important going on in medicine that a lot of people might not know about. Like, for example, the breakthrough test about Alzheimer's disease that still today, you know, I go into giving a talk and there are several hundred people. I say, anybody hear of the P-tow 217 test? Like one person raises their hand, you know. But, you know, I've written at least two newsletters about it. I say, anybody heard of organ clocks? You know,

[19:42] It's just so much stuff going on that's exciting and people don't know about it and it's not covered elsewhere. So that's what I try to do. Awesome stuff. So what else do you have going on? [19:53] What else are you... [19:54] What else are you excited about? Any projects? I know the book, and like I said, we'll have links to the book, but what else is Dr. Eric working on? Well, there are doing that, starting up that trial Alzheimer's prevention. We just enrolled 1,000 people with long COVID. [20:11] to try to prevent or treat on COVID, which there is no treatment validated. And we're testing a GLP-1 drug bound for people versus placebo. So this is a direct-to-participant trial. All of our clinical trials are direct-to-participant. We don't involve any medical centers. You know, we just go right to the people. And that's what we shouldn't be doing. And we shouldn't be doing trials like the old way. They cost too much and they're very inconvenient and very slow [20:41] And we can cut 90% of the cost just by going direct to participant. So that's something we do. But, you know, basically, the AI analytics, that is our main thrust, is being able to take many layers of data, including sensors, variable sensors, and bring that together to extract the most information. [21:03] meaning. [21:04] so that we live in a new era. Now, everybody's talked about the information era for decades. Well, we're in the hyper-information era. We're in a tsunami of information, but no one really is analyzing it very well. So that's one of the things that we really work on. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, Dr. Eric, where can people find and follow you and keep up with the latest, greatest of you? Well, thanks. I mean, Substack, Ground Truths, I named it Ground Truths as a double meaning. One is it's

[21:33] a big term in AI, how you tell whether the AI is performing versus the truth, the ground truth. But it's also, I'm on the ground that I'm trying to tell the truth. I'm trying to get out there things that people should know about. So that's one thing, and that's easy to find, ground truth. SuperAge's book is the fourth book I've written about the future of medicine, and one I'm really, as I mentioned, very keen about preventing diseases. And otherwise, [22:03] in the main journals. And that's kind of what we believe. You got to have the evidence. Got to have peer review. Don't give me these influencers that are hawking supplements and other crap. You know what? If you're hawking something, [22:16] then that means you're not credible. [22:18] You know, you're never gonna find me selling a supplement or anything. So, you know, that's, I think, something really important. [22:27] And I wish we had, you know, a lot less of that stuff because it's got people very confused out there. They don't know who to believe. Being a trusted source, that's something you, you know, you have to work hard at getting that trust and maintaining it. So that's what I try to do. And you do an amazing job. Again, I'm honored to have you on. I'm a huge supporter and follower of all the things that you do. Just truly blessed to have you here and in the wisdom that you have, man. So I could talk to you forever. [22:57] But I don't want to do that. But what I'm going to do is this. I want to think of the right way to do it. [23:02] But I want to provide 20 copies of your book.

[23:04] to someone. So I'll make sure I purchase them. But the first 20 people that message me, whether it's LinkedIn, Instagram, my phone, whatever, the first people that message me super agers, I'm going to send a copy of this book. How about that? Oh my gosh. Well, thank you. Yes, sir. And [23:22] I thank your mother for me because that's really wonderful to hear that she's a reader, an avid reader. Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about is connecting with people and trying to share. [23:35] worthwhile information and perspective. You got it. Again, I'm honored to have you here. For everybody that's watching or listening, make sure you go to the show notes in the descriptions. I'm going to have links to everything that Dr. Eric has going on. [23:48] Trust me, you definitely want to subscribe to the newsletter. If you're not on Substack, go on Substack right now just for him. Forget anyone else because he's an amazing writer and information share as well, too. And for all the viewers and listeners, remember, your because is your superpower. Go Unleash It. [24:07] That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplugged. If this episode moved you, and I'm sure it did, follow the show wherever you listen. Share it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review so more people can find their because. I'm Rudy Rush, and until next time, stay driven, stay focused, and stay unplugged. [24:33] I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to GEICO Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place.

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