Sunday Special: The Best TV of 2025

[00:00] I gave my brother a New York Times subscription. We exchange articles. And so having read the same article, we can discuss it. She sent me a year-long subscription so I have access to all the games. The New York Times contributes to our quality time together. It enriches our relationship. It was such a cool and thoughtful gift. We're reading the same stuff. We're making the same food. We're on the same page. Learn more about giving a New York Times subscription as a gift at nytimes.com slash gift. [00:30] Thank you. [00:34] Welcome to the Sunday Special. I'm Gilbert Cruz. We're spending this last several episodes of the year looking back on some of the big cultural moments of 2025. And today we are talking about TV. Here with me to consider some of the best shows of the year, as well as some of the most popular ones, are two of my colleagues who watch a ton of TV. Jim Ponowazic is our chief television critic here at the Times. [01:00] to have you back with us, Jim. It's a pleasure to be back so far. And Alexis Salosky is one of our culture reporters. Happy to have you also back here with us again, Alexis. I could not be more delighted. I can tell. [01:15] Okay, so let's start out with a little fill-in-the-blank exercise, which I'm asking everyone to do. For TV, 2025 was a blank year. [01:26] Fill in the blank. [01:28] It was a year of mild improvement, I think. Beautiful. From my standpoint. Okay.

[01:34] When I put together my, you know, end of the year best lists, most years it is a wrestling match trying to eliminate the last few things to get the list down to 10 or some approximation of that. I would say last year, not to crap on 2024 too much, but was was one of the few years where, you know, I just I basically had 10 and and I was good. And one of them was the Olympics. [02:04] I'm not going to say that it was just a blow-the-doors-off year for television, but it was a much more normal distribution of going down to the wire and cutting things off the list. So that's a positive note for me. I think it is. I think it is. Alexis, you do not put together, or you don't publish at least, a best-of-the-year list. But I'm sure in your own mind you have a sense of how this year was. [02:34] Fine? [02:36] Fine. How many N's in that? Fine. Many. I mean, the rising inflection is key. It was fine. [02:43] When you... [02:45] are out and about socializing with people, and they say, what should I watch? I occasionally had some things to tell them, which is really, it's really all I want, you know, as opposed to sort of looking scared and cornered and forgetting my own name, which is a lot of how 2024 felt. So both of you have been watching a lot of TV this year, and I know you've observed some trends, and I think we should start by talking about those. Jim, let's start with you. In your year-end list,

[03:15] A bunch of shows about conspiracies. What were they? Just rattle off some names here. Oh, there was, where do I start? Common Side Effects, Severance, The Chair Company, The Lowdown, Pluribus. I'd love for you to talk about one because it feels not only appropriate for TV, but maybe also appropriate for The World. [03:35] the country, [03:37] This year? I mean, you know, I don't need to... [03:43] tell our listeners probably all the reasons that conspiracy theories have had great influence in the larger world, conspiracy theories and actual conspiracies. Um, and, [03:54] Conspiracy is a great engine for drama. There's somebody doing something, something is amiss. But a lot of the best shows that I watched this year, and the more interesting ones, in some way or another involved... [04:13] Often a lone or close to lone protagonist trying to unravel something that went way, way beyond them. And, you know, this was in animation. It was in science fiction. It was in mystery. There's a there was a lot of it in the water. [04:33] One of the biggest shows of the year, and we just touch on this one because I feel like everyone has heard a lot about Severance, is sort of conspiracy at its core in some way. This was a season that came three years after the first season, a very long time. And yet there seemed to be, at least at the beginning, a ton of excitement about this one. Yeah, Severance is one of those streaming shows that comes around like Halley's Comet, and you need to do a refresher course.

[05:03] I very much liked the second season. I liked it enough to put it on my top ten list at the end of the year. I suppose you're Mark S. [05:16] I'm Mark W. [05:18] Who are you people? Would you be open to using a different first name to avoid confusion? [05:25] Welcome back, Marcus. [05:32] truly is one of the series that's in the great TV tradition of shows like Lost, etc., where there is both a... [05:42] large conspiratorial element organization, in this case, Lumen Industries, and also just a big question of what is the conspiracy about and what is it for and why are they pushing these buttons on these computers all days? So I was, you know, I would say not as stellar as season one, but it [06:05] Like a welcome payoff that made me want more, hopefully in fewer than three years. Yeah. Did this stick with you? If I can be mildly contrarian and only mildly because any show that makes such a place for goats is okay with me. Okay, we see what stuck with you. Yes. I tend to find the mystery box element, at least in the second season, the least compelling thing about it, which is where I often get to with mystery box shows.

[06:35] I'm a person when I read books, I often skip to the end and then go back. So I just I just want to know. I'm I'm no longer so interested in the dragging out of what is Lumen Industries. What are they making? What are they doing? And I wish they would just solve that. And then we would go back to the tension, the relationships, the comedy, the melon parties, the goats, more goats, more goats. [07:00] Not to get all TV history 101 on this, but I will agree to the extent that going back to Lost, if you were watching TV around that time, you recall that what we saw after Lost were like 5,000 shows that would involve some kind of convoluted mystery and puzzles and weird random details, but sort of forgot the fact that [07:26] this show needs to make you laugh. It needs to have engaging characters. It needs to, like, surprise and hit you emotionally. And for me, Severance is one of the few shows since in that mold that has done that. It is about a mystery, but I enjoy watching it for the relationships between the characters. And, you know, to me, at least, it did not lose that in the second season. [07:56] with is a show called Common Side Effects. This was an animated series on Adult Swim that came in part from one of the makers of an animated drama that I loved a couple of years ago called Scavenger's Rain. But this one is about a mushroom. There's a mushroom. Say more. There's a mushroom. I don't have you hooked on mushroom.

[08:26] There's a mushroom in the rainforest that is discovered by this kind of kooky, amateur scientist, holistic healer. An amateur mycologist? Yes, an amateur mycologist. That's 10 points for Gryffindor. The dream, the goal. It's amazing. Thank you. And it can cure anything. Yeah. [08:52] Which sounds fantastic, except, and here the conspiracy element comes in, except for pharmaceutical companies. [09:01] who see a tremendous threat to their business and decide to shut this down. [09:31] pharma, it's the insurance companies, the government. Think about all the people who make tons of money just from keeping us sick by keeping us unwell. That's the animating plot of the thriller. [09:43] What gets me into it is it is simultaneously realistic and sort of hallucinatory. It also has kind of a quirky, offbeat sense of humor, which, you know, I think series like this really sort of need to avoid getting too stuffed up in their self-seriousness.

[10:13] society is and what the condition of modern life has done to us. And should we all in some way be getting back to the garden? Like, it's really kind of a show that like, you know, sort of had a little bit for Luigi Mangione and a little bit for RFK Jr. Yeah, there was this kind of element of, you know, the sickness of society that I also thought made it intellectually interesting. Alexis, what was a trend that came up for you this year? [10:43] a lot of shows trying to revive or complicate the idea of the romantic comedy. I think it's hard [10:49] I should say initially to make romantic comedy for television. There have been romantic comedies on television. And of course there have been relationship comedies, but romantic comedies have been filmic because there's an end point. And that end point is typically marriage, right? The couple get married, they live happily ever after. There's some great TV about what happens after the happily ever after, but it's hard to disrupt the perfection of that arc. Right. [11:18] And so it's always a challenge for romantic comedy. I think we're in a place where people are trying again and I love to see it. Like all I want, I love love. I want to think it's possible, not for me, but for others. [11:34] I think you're, it's possible you're saying too much. Yeah. I don't want it, but I love to see it. And I thought that this year there were some really good attempts. I,

[11:45] enjoyed too much, which is Alina Denham romantic comedy, which was on Netflix. I love Megan Stalter, who some of us will know from Hacks and some of us will know from her. [12:03] demented and i mean that in the most positive way comedy videos uh and she plays an american who moves to england with all kinds of crazy romantic ideas of what england is most of which are unrealized but falls in love um i met someone wow you know this is the only area where you waste no time uh what does he do why is the first question always what does he do how about how [12:33] Okay, Jessica, I'm your mother, not your friend. Keep that in mind. So he's unemployed? He's not unemployed. He's an indie musician. Oh, and where does he live? Well, he lives in an early indie neighborhood. You wouldn't know it. You don't know the London area, Mom. And as with contemporary romantic comedies, there aren't problems of class or religion or other external issues. [12:59] exogenous things to keep people apart because [13:03] It's fine. We're fine. Anyone can date anyone. And so it's the characters sort of maybe dealing a little bit with the baggage that they bring into a relationship and trying to be better partners for each other. It's very sweet. There were a couple of shows this year that actually sort of.

[13:23] Did deal with faith in relationships. We're going to talk about one of them later because Jim is a big fan of it. It's an animated series. But we also had on Netflix the second season of Nobody Wants This. Yeah. Yeah, we did. What nice cameos, right? It's possible that Seth Rogen works too much, but I was very happy to see him and Kate Berlant show up as rabbis. I love you, man. I love your work so much. Really? [13:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I saw the sermon you gave at Tu B'Shvat at Temple Chayat. Sure. It blew my mind. It completely changed the way I mourned. I was mourning all wrong. [14:04] This is a show about this is a show about a rabbi played by Adam Brody, who some of us maybe fell in love with on the OC. How could you not? How could you? I think we all did. Yeah. And then Kristen Bell plays his very much non-Jewish, cool, cool, blonde, blonde. [14:27] Goyasha podcaster girlfriend. And the first season sees them deal with the complexities of that. And the second season... [14:36] for better and kind of for worse, also sees them deal with the complexities of that in a way that doesn't really move a lot of things forward, where she has to decide if she is ready for conversion or if they're just going to hang out in this sort of place. [14:53] No man's land where it would be very, very, very difficult for him to be a rabbi with a wife who did not convert. It's not a good look if your wife doesn't. It's like, oh, man, how are you going to sell it to anyone else if you can't even sell it at home? Like, it's not a great look if your wife doesn't convert to Judaism. None of it matters. You are my soulmate. That's it. I don't care if you're Jewish. I don't care if you're not Jewish.

[15:21] I choose you. [15:23] Every time. I love the people in the show. I really like the vision of Los Angeles, where I am from. It makes me wonder why I left. But I wish that there had been some... [15:37] narrative progress. And also, I think [15:41] this show, unlike the first season, eased up on its depiction of Jewish women. But I remember speaking to the creator and the showrunner for the first season, it now has different showrunners, and explaining to her that slutty blonde Jews do exist. You know, we are a manifold. We are manifold people. Like, we're not all shrill runats. No, representation is important. Representation matters. Yeah, there is a lot of freaky stuff going on in the Bible. [16:11] Good God. Jim, you put a show that was... [16:19] Concerned with sex in a different way on your top ten list. Yes, it's Dying for Sex, a limited series that was about sex and especially about dying. It was adapted from a story that... [16:35] about a woman who has a terminal diagnosis of cancer, played by Michelle Williams in the miniseries, who has a terminal diagnosis of cancer [16:45] and sets out basically to cross off a big item on her bucket list, which is...

[16:52] to finally have an orgasm. And it becomes both a story of, you know, the journey of the end of life, which I felt was kind of open and frank about the dying process in a way that as much death as there can be on TV, I've rarely seen. And when you are very close to death... [17:18] Your breathing goes into a cycle of [17:20] deep, slow breaths. [17:22] And long pauses. [17:25] And then eventually... [17:26] There is a breath out. [17:28] That is not followed by a breath in. [17:31] Thank you. [17:32] And that's it. [17:33] Thank you. [17:34] Hey. [17:35] Huh. [17:36] Can you make sure that my mouth isn't open when I die? [17:40] Okay. [17:41] Just don't bite me. [17:43] why would i bait you i don't know why i need you to tell me this but please say that you won't the final episode you know no spoilers but like you can guess what happens uh uh the final um but it was was fantastic uh in this respect dealing with the hospice experience and so on but also you know and i i realize that people are like running from this description probably right [18:13] an incredibly funny show in a way that, you know, was... [18:19] Honest and cathartic and daring. Michelle Williams is fantastic in it. Jenny Slate is very good. It was an example of something I think I always look for in television, which is the idea that –

[18:37] Funny is not the opposite of serious and that you often can and frankly often need to use humor in the service of kind of deep and powerful ideas. And, you know, sex and death doesn't get much more deep and powerful than those. We have talked about sex and death. I'd love to talk about sex and guns, Alexis. Great. I think I know where this is going. [19:07] Is it going to the hunting wives? I think it is. Okay. I am so excited to talk about the hunting wives because this pertains to what Jim is saying, that I think that there is a great problem in much, though by no means all, of prestige and really sub-prestige television this day. [19:27] that it forgets that [19:30] maybe it should be fun. Like maybe we should have a nice time, which doesn't mean we can't deal with serious issues, but maybe entertainment should be entertaining rather than dour. And there was a show on Netflix this year called The Hunting Wives. Would I describe this show as good? Oh, no. No. [20:00] played by Brittany Snow, who is a transplant to East Texas and has to understand the manners and mores of East Texas, many of which involve wealthy suburban women getting very drunk and shooting guns and sleeping with each other. What fun. Actually, I have to go pretty soon because I

[20:30] You got it, don't you? Yeah, but it scares me a little bit. Oh, come on. Let me see it. [20:36] Come on, don't be shy. Oh, look how cute. Oh, girl, you haven't even loaded this thing. You think I know how to load a gun? I'll walk you through it. I don't really... Listen, I'll take you to target practice later. Just heal me, okay? [20:55] It also stars Malin Ackerman, [20:58] a wonderful actress who was completely wasted on billions, and she is having a great time. She was terrific on Trophy Wife, by the way, an unfairly marined show. I know, a one-season tragedy. What a show. What a show. And any time she is on screen, you know that you are going to have a fantastic time, [21:28] is radical. And I would love to see more of that. I mean, this was the best of the bunch in terms of a trend, which has been a trend for many years, which is rich people with secrets, often, though not always, in coats. And I'm sorry, in coats? Yeah, for a while, the coats were really big in [21:58] in some really elegant outerwear. Are you talking about that one she did with Hugh Grant? Yes, but also the coats on Big Little Lies, which is, again, like a best-in-class example of the genre, the coats were also very good. Like, it does get cold in California sometimes. It's at least foggy. You need a layer or two. It can get a bit damp, otherwise. Yeah, but this year, we had the Better Sister, we had All Her Fault, we had the Girlfriend, we had

[22:28] Beast and Me, and they were very dour. The perfect couple, I would say, was a little more fun. The Beast and Me was not exactly a laugh riot. No, no, no. You know, they didn't wear coats in The White Lotus. They did not wear coats in The White Lotus. Too warm. Too warm. Too warm in Thailand. They did wear them in The Gilded Age. They did wear them in The Gilded Age, which are also rich people with secrets shows. And I really enjoy The White Lotus. [22:58] I don't think that any reasonable person who I love and trust would argue that this third season, which was set in Thailand, was the best of the series. It was not. [23:10] It was not the best of the series. It was the worst of the series, but it's still enjoyable. [23:16] It is nice to see attractive people in beautiful locations behaving badly and being absolutely miserable. I will say I love the first season of White Lotus, and I just I don't like its trend lines. You know, I think the second was not as good. And then the third was less than that. But it does have this sort of love boat aspect to it where there are multiple stories playing out in different guests. [23:46] likely to be elements within that that you can connect to even in a more subpar season. And fantastic casting. Speaking of The Love Boat, we haven't talked about Dr. Odyssey, one of the most banana shows of this year. Jim, did you experience the confusion and wonder? It's a long year. Dr. Odyssey was the love boat with grotesque medical procedures added on because,

[24:16] grotesque, but it was so stupid. And it made my brain so soft. Like when you look at the diagrams of the brain, the cauliflower, the nodules, I had none of those. My brain was a beaten bag chair as I watched Dr. Odyssey and let the parade of images go by. I've never heard of the show Dr. Odyssey. You've never heard of the show Dr. Odyssey? It is possible there's too much [24:46] This one of Dawson's Creek extraction is a doctor on a cruise ship. And would you believe it? But every episode, there are several medical crises. The guest cast, Kate Berlant. [25:02] Amy Sedaris, Margaret Cho. I believe those ladies were all in the same episode. Character actress Margo Martindale shows up. It is a gift. It is a joy. If you think about it for more than it, don't think about it. Don't. Don't do that. Just let it wash over you. Let's take a little break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about even more shows we love this year. [25:32] Thank you. [25:38] I'm Paul Tenorio. I cover soccer for The Athletic. And I'm Amy Lawrence. I cover football for The Athletic. Whatever you call it, the biggest competition in the sport is happening right now. And The Athletic's World Cup coverage has everything you need to follow the tournament. There's 48 countries taking part from the tiny island of Curacao to the five-time champions Brazil. Even if you don't know your offside from your onside, if you're eager to know more about the teams, the matches, all the stories on and off the pitch, we've got you sorted.

[26:08] who's already up early every weekend, waking the neighbors when your favorite club scores. We'll make sure you get equipped with more information, more insight than anyone you know. We've got more than 70 obsessive reporters on the ground, covering the ins and outs from every game. I almost forgot to mention the best part, Amy. Free access to the Athletics World Cup coverage in our app. Download the Athletic app and see you there. [26:35] So we've talked about a bunch of shows. I think we should really get into the ones that we just absolutely adored. Jim, you put a bunch on your best of the year. You talked about a few already. I'd love to take turns between the three of us, but mostly between the two of you, talking about some of our favorites. Jim, tell us about Long Story Short. Okay, so when I put together my best lists at the end of year, you know, there's a top ten list. [27:05] three or four shows that are my real favorites. And then I'm choosing from a grab bag of, you know, 20 or 30 other shows that could be on there. And generally, you know, of those shows, there is one that is my absolute favorite. [27:18] This year, that was long story short. An animated family dramedy, comic drama, comedy with dramatic elements from the creator of BoJack Horseman. Everyone pick a territory. I want goats. Never get goats. Goats are not a territory. This game makes no sense. Does it make sense because you're not listening? Oh, she's putting the pieces up his nose. I'm listening. I just don't understand any of this. And your father doesn't either. I think I'm understanding. He's being nice.

[27:44] He doesn't understand. He has the same glazed overlook as when we rented Farewell, My Concubine. I did not understand Farewell, My Concubine. I just said I preferred Mrs. Doubtfire. I want to be a concubine. For the record, I understand the game perfectly, and I think it's bad. This is why you don't play games with your family. Your family are not your friends. It's about a family told over time, jumping back and forth in their history. You might say that kind of sounds like This Is Us, and this was a bit of a This Is Us approach, [28:14] With the difference of having, you know, less reliance on big twists and melodrama. And also, long story short, is just extremely Jewish. It's about a Jewish family. It is detailed and specific. This is so Jewish, Manischewitz could like pickle it and sell it in a jar. [28:38] It is the gefilte fish of animated comedies. [28:44] I am Jewish myself. My family is not super Jewish in the way that the family in this is. That's not necessarily the appeal of it to me. The appeal is that [28:55] I am really drawn to specificity, particularly in comedies like this, because I think that helps you develop a viewpoint. It helps you know the characters. It helps you create a world. I watch TV. I've watched. [29:10] experience art in general to take me into somebody else's experience. And it's sort of similar to me, to the way that I loved Reservation Dogs, the great comedy that was set on an Oklahoma Indian reservation a couple of years ago. Here, the family that the show depicts, you meet them

[29:32] as they're driving to a funeral, [29:34] when the kids are younger you take second exit after exit second exit after exit what could that possibly so that's enough we're lost i'm an orphan and we're lost grief is perplexing but i don't think one of the perplexing parts should be directions to the cemetery if you'd followed the hearth he was weaving all over is he trying to get us killed you will later see the kids as middle-aged [29:58] adults with their own children. You see people age and get younger and die. And in the process, you start teasing out all the relationships that develop among, you know, just the web of this family and the slights that emerge in somebody's youth that become, you know, part of their neuroses when they're older. To me, it was just, it was a beautiful, moving, often just absurd, [30:28] absurdly funny way of just telling the story of how a group of people came to be who they are. And I would recommend it to just absolutely anyone. [30:40] My family is Jewish in the way this family is Jewish. And so initially, I had a rough time with the show. I think I had to start the first episode, which is a little heavier. [30:50] than some of the others a few times before I got through it. But I agree with you. It is so lovely. And as it goes on, it gets funnier. I think it allows itself to be funnier. It gets weirder. Like This Is Us, this is absolutely a show where someone would die in a crockpot fire. But on this show, that would be hilarious. Yes. And you're also not going to spend like three years finding out. No, no. They would be making brisket for Passover. Something would go

[31:20] So I came around on this show. I'm all in. Is that what happened in This Is Us? Someone died in a tragic crockpot fire? A crockpot killed somebody, yes. Slow cookers! It was devastating for the slow cooker industry. Slow cookers, they're dangerous. Oh my God. No. I did not stick with that show. Alexis, give us one from the year that you loved. I am here to talk about butts. And I'm here to talk about specific kinds of butts. And those are hockey butts. [31:50] on HBO called Heated Rivalry, and its commitment to the male backside is sincere and unparalleled in recent television. It is about rival hockey players, one Russian, one Canadian, who fall not exactly in love, but definitely in lust. I butcher my chicken. I'm not. I'm not a chicken. [32:20] But I think we should talk. [32:25] Do you want to sit? [32:28] Not really. [32:31] This is such a bad idea. And it is the steamiest show. I was trying to think, what was the last show that felt like truly sexy? And I think it was normal people, but that sex was very Irish and sad.

[32:50] Not I mean, sure, they're they're anguished because they're closeted hockey players. But this sex is not sad. It's also extremely specific. I was like, wow, I know exactly who is doing what's going down to the millimeter. I think that is the sign of good action filmmaking. You just know where everything is located. Yes. [33:11] Yeah. So why do you like this? I often see shows where the sex feels incredibly gratuitous. And I would say this is a sexy, sexy show with so much sex. And the sex does not feel gratuitous because the sex is text. It is about sex. It is about their desire for each other. It is about how they have sex, how they want each other, how they don't want each other. [33:41] It's enough. It's enough. It's enough to tell a hot, steamy story about sex. I would love to talk about a show that has zero sex and zero butts. There might be some droid butts, but I can't recall precisely. These are not the butts you're looking for. [34:03] I would love to talk about season two of Andor, which is my favorite show of the year. [34:11] Season 2 of the Disney Plus Star Wars TV show. It is an odd thing to describe. It's a prequel to a prequel. It is a prequel to the film Rogue One, which itself is a prequel to the very first Star Wars movie. And it is essentially a spy show, an espionage show set in the world of Star Wars that is concerned with the rise of the galactic rebellion that we come to see in all these movies. When do we start fighting back?

[34:41] - Love. - By walking away. [34:47] We fight your wins. [34:49] That means we lose. [34:52] and lose and lose and lose. [34:54] Until we're ready. [34:56] All you know now [34:58] is how much you hate. [35:00] You bank that, you hide that [35:03] You keep it alive until you know what to do with it. [35:08] And when I tell you to move, [35:11] You move. [35:12] It was the pinnacle of something that has dominated the culture for... [35:16] I don't know. [35:18] two-plus decades at this point, which is IP storytelling, which is franchise storytelling. And as someone who grew up a Star Wars fan... [35:25] Sorry, this is extremely nerdy. I was obsessed with it when I was a teenager. And I thought that when I got older, Star Wars would age with me, would grow up with me. And it never did. And I felt like this was an actual moment when, for one... [35:39] Brief shining moment. Star Wars was a grown up thing. It was a grown up story. There's a show about rebellion and autocracy and sacrifice and death and all. It's not about sex, but it's about it's about a lot of adult things. And that to me was rare. I doubt we'll ever see something like it again. And I loved it so much. I know you did. Yeah, I'm a thousand percent on the Andor train. And, you know, I consider just the reliance on IP to be the curse of television. [36:09] And it's jumped to TV. And this was a rare case of an IP based product that was just a great work in its own with its own ideas. One thing I've loved about it is that, you know, obviously it's Star Wars. There's there's a lot of adventure. There's a lot of daring do, you know, beyond the politics.

[36:39] democracy, you know, [36:40] feels very current, but it also just has this beautiful tragedy to it, which is, you know, something it sort of borrows from Rogue One to an extent. Like, these are the people, you know, these are the stories of the people who do not end up getting a metal draped around them at some point later on once the rebellion has succeeded. It's about sacrifice and tragedy and, you know, [37:10] never see the fruits of their labor achieved and I think [37:14] There's something kind of beautiful about that, you know, that didn't necessarily get that in like the Mandalorian. No, no, no, no offense to Baby Yoda. Yeah. Yeah. [37:25] This conversation about Andor is making me so happy. I could talk about it for another hour, but I think we should move on to another show that also – [37:33] uh made me very happy and that's the lowdown this was a show that was a little late catching up to but as soon as i watched 20 minutes of it i fell in love it's so funny and ethan hawk is so great and tell us about this one uh so the lowdown is how would i describe it a political journalistic historical noir about ethan hawk's character lee raybon who is a self-styled he calls himself a [38:04] Sorry, say again? I am a Tulsa true story. A truth story. What exactly is a truth story? I'm glad you asked. I read stuff.

[38:14] research stuff. [38:15] I drive around and I find stuff. Then I write about stuff. Some people care. Some people don't. I'm chronically unemployed, always broke. Let's just say that I am obsessed with the truth. It involves an investigation that he makes into a powerful political family whose scion, played by Kyle McLaughlin, is running for governor of Oklahoma. [38:45] in all the ways that pay off on a dramatic level. What's really appealing about it is that it just has this great, it's like it's a caper. You know, it's this kind of picaresque story about this kind of wild-eyed guy with a cause who is, [39:09] does not always make wise decisions and, you know, often gets out over his skis. But [39:16] About him and the characters around him who make up this community, you know, kind of trying to make sense of what's going on and what. [39:27] snakes are under the carpet. It's slightly shaggy, but in the most wonderful way. And it's, you know, picaresque is a great word to use because it also has all these little characters that pop in and out that are [39:41] sort of immediately memorable. You know, the lawyer next door to the bookstore that he owns that he keeps going to in order to store stuff in his safe. The one-eyed editor of a supermarket weekly played by the hip-hop artist Killer Mike, you know, who has his own – every character in this movie.

[40:02] show, I feel like I'm going to remember for a while. Pete Dinklage shows up for one absolutely perfect, completely bananas episode as Lee's former partner, and it is indelible. This is a show that is so textured. You feel like you can taste it. You can smell it. You know what the air would feel like on your skin, which is something that the creator [40:32] to you. [40:34] It's so specific also because it's Tulsa-based. Yes, and it doesn't feel like somebody in New York's idea of Tulsa. It feels lived in. It feels like somebody has met versions of these people and captured down. Everybody has a voice. Everybody has individuality. And that is a big part of the key to its appeal. I do feel, you know, you use the word caper. I use the word shaggy. [41:04] a bit of a hangout feel to this. You're just following Ethan Hawke's character around Tulsa. He's getting beat up in the classic style of many a movie private investigator. Alexis, I know you watched a ton of stuff this year that also had a hangout feel to it. I love a hangout show. I love a show where you just want to spend time with the characters. And [41:29] There has been a desire to crack the friendship comedy since Friends, since Girls, and

[41:38] I don't think a show has emerged that people feel about as strongly. And this year we had a few contenders. We had I Love LA and we had Adults. And these are both shows, one set in New York, one set in Los Angeles, that are about young adults sort of learning to [42:08] sexier, it's slicker, adults is goofier, it's squirmier. [42:15] I have a feeling both of these will be great second season shows as the writers learn to write for these particular performers. But I'm happy to spend time with these people. And I. [42:29] Another show which is not new, which is returning Platonic starring... [42:35] Rose Byrne, who is fantastic, and Seth Rogen, who I think we can all agree works too much, but I love it, as old friends who reunite in middle age and... [42:49] go on some really lame adventures throughout Los Angeles. I love it. I don't even know. It's Seth Rogen's actual best comedy on Apple TV. I know. The studio wins all the awards, but I really think it is. Rose Byrne is freaking fantastic. I mean, you know, absolutely. Like, I've seen Bridesmaids. You know, I originally knew her, I think, at first from Damages. I think it really hits me watching this show how fantastic, you know, in terms of delivery, in terms often of physical

[43:19] comedic actress she is. It's honestly one of my [43:23] favorite performances on tv right now as a woman i can tell you she is still bugged about it don't explain to me i have a woman's playing to you all right you should be explaining nothing to nobody listen to me if you don't let jenner and i hang out you know what's gonna happen she's gonna think you're hiding something she's gonna hate me and then you and i aren't gonna be friends again okay don't you think you're being a little dramatic no i don't think so she is so funny and as a type a adjacent lady i'm here for all the tightly wound ladies and i'm here for all the tightly wound [43:53] Often in spectacular fashion. Have either of you seen her movie? If I had legs, I'd kick you. [44:00] I have not. No, I have not either. It's on my list. Sick kid movies. I can't do it. I can't do it. I feel like I'm compiling a list in my mind of things you cannot do. You're not going to double feature that in Hamnet? Yeah, cancer, sick, and dead kids. Yeah. [44:16] Okay, let's talk about one more. [44:18] And Pluribus, I was a little late to Pluribus, but after only two episodes, I think I'm hooked. I think I have to see it through. Did you? OK, well, let me ask you a question before I start talking about it. You came to it a little late. Did you go into Pluribus spoiled or managed to be unspoiled? [44:34] managed to avoid it. Every time I saw the word pluribus, I averted my eyes. I could not look at a dollar bill for months. So I did not know what was going on in this show. God bless you that you managed that. I suppose I should say up front, I'm going to need to talk about what the show is about. So plug your ears if you're somebody who's... I'm very much of the camp that a good

[45:04] know, just tune me up for a second. But Pluribus was a show that arrived with a great deal of mystery about it because its premise is so wild. Essentially, an [45:14] alien RNA virus arrives on Earth by means of an intergalactic radio signal that infects most of humanity and causes them to become united in a joyous collective mind. A handful of people are left out of it. One of them is our heroine, Carol Sterka, played by the great Rhea Sehorne, who you [45:44] of [45:45] romanticity fiction and a sort of misanthrope by nature who ends up being kind of the perfect foil for this new collective of alien-juiced beatific humanity. Are you reading my mind? No, absolutely not. We couldn't do that if we wanted to. Who is we? Why is everybody suddenly we? The sort of [46:15] There is a way to reverse this virus and restore humanity to what it was before. You know, we could continue this after you've had a good night's sleep. Who is we? We is us. Just us. Part of the thing that I think is interesting is that it's a little bit playing around with the idea of, is what we've witnessed an apocalypse? There is suddenly no war on Earth. There's no conflict.

[46:45] by our brains being taken over. And underneath this highly entertaining... [46:51] Very funny, extremely well acted. I mean, it's often like Rhea Sehorne sort of giving a solo performance. It's a very interesting idea about... [47:00] collectivism versus individualism, about what happiness means, about whether it is better to be blissful and have no free will or to be discontented, but an intact individual. Fascinating. Like Severance, I think just a knock your socks off first season. I hope it doesn't [47:24] take us long coming back. I really enjoyed it. This whole premise that the whole world is in the I'd like to give the world a Coke commercial and you are somehow on the sidelines with a Pepsi you can't open. The way that Rhea Sehorne plays discomfort, disgust, contempt, just the range of [47:54] because it's only season one. I'm really invested in the mystery. I'm here for it. I'd love to go to a quick lightning round. There are so many shows that came out this year. I don't think we're at peak TV anymore, but that doesn't mean that there still aren't hundreds of TV shows that came out in 2025. We should just very, very briefly talk about The Pit, which is a show that earlier in the year, a few of us discussed on the Emmys episode.

[48:24] very soon. I'm very excited for The Pit. Its first season was one of the bigger TV shows of the year. I love The Pit. I think it's impeccable television. I think that the jury is still out almost literally as to whether or not it is an ER spinoff. But I think that it, if anything, improves on ER in its speed, in its economy, in the ease with which it communicates its characters through [48:54] Yeah, I will say, you know, I love experimentation. I love a wild idea. But there is still pleasure in just a hospital show done well. So well. [49:06] We did not touch on the Netflix series Adolescence, which was one of this summer, if I'm recalling correctly, is sort of big phenomena. I have to admit I did not. [49:18] watch it because it seemed like the premise would [49:21] Totally stress me out as the parent of a young male. [49:25] You're not wrong. [49:26] I think it was, you know, my take on it was that, you know, for parents of kids, particularly male kids of a certain age, this this was like the day after, you know, people just watch and discuss in these sort of like hushed, traumatized terms.

[49:56] the result or a consequence of online bullying and social media pressures and kind of just becomes this investigation of what are the little screens in our pockets doing to all of our kids. I will say, critically, as a whole, it's quite an achievement. We haven't even mentioned that, I believe it was every episode was shot in a single take. It was kind of an interesting [50:26] lends it a kind of vitality. There's a bit of like an after-school special vibe to it for me. There's also a fantastic episode three that is just sort of a two-hander dialogue entirely between the accused young child and a social worker, basically, in custody that was just like watching a great, well-produced, explosive piece of theater in front of you. Did you watch this one? [50:56] Yeah, cancer and sick and dead kids are my no-go areas. So I also have not watched this, but I can tell you my kids are never getting phones. They're like, when can I have a phone? I say, when you are 30. I totally support that. We are going to take another break. And when we come back, we're going to end this episode, as we always do, with a little game. Oh, yay. Oh, yay. [51:26] Thank you.

[51:27] Thank you. [51:28] Thank you. [51:32] Okay, Jim, Alexis, we're going to wrap up this episode as we wrap up every episode with a little game. I'm so nervous. [51:41] I have three rounds of TV-related delights here for you. You're going to buzz in when you know the answer. I don't think I need to remind you that... [51:52] This is as important as it gets. The stakes could not be higher here. Okay, so are you ready? No. Are you ready? No. Great. But will I ever be? [52:05] Round one, Must Sing TV. The television theme song, a fixture of TV for decades, went out of fashion for a time, but it has come roaring back in recent years. [52:22] I'm tone deaf. This is going to go great. Ears open, please. [52:28] is this a good time to tell you i'm song blind gilbert i think that's like tv news theme like the pit i don't know no no okay the answer is the gilded age oh oh it's composed by harry and

[52:58] have to be British. They're also brothers. Okay, next one. [53:06] Oh, I watched this, but I have no idea. [53:14] Alexis. What we do with the shadows, but that's off the air, so no. Also, it's called What We Do in the Shadows. Oh my God. What We Do with the Shadows? What We Do with the Shadows. [53:22] What do they do with the shadows? [53:25] That is the theme song to Wednesday, composed by Danny Elfman. All right. The two of you are doing great. I need lyrics. Yeah. I'm a word person. It's all right, brain. [53:46] Alexis. Is it Righteous Gemstones? It is the Righteous Gemstones. Oh, my God. [53:52] Composed by Joseph Stevens. I got there with context clues. All right, next one. [54:05] Alexis. Hunting Wives. This is from the Hunting Wives. This is the song King of Possibilities by Goldie. [54:12] Boutier. [54:13] I think she's from French-speaking Canada. All right, next one. [54:25] Clearly, I've been doing a lot of skip credits this year. Okay.

[54:32] Jim, you know this. Jim, we're getting fired. You know this. It's been a great run at the Times. I'm sorry I had to end this way. [54:43] Oh, it's no succession theme. It isn't. [54:48] It's Andor. It's from a different show. It's Andor, yeah. [54:54] Round two, which we call the Gaslight Zone. No, no, no. No, no, no. Round one was clearly the Gaslight Zone. We talked about how TV this year has felt a little paranoid, a little conspiratorial. Well, that's not just on the screen. The conversation around TV shows can also get a little conspiracy-minded from time to time. [55:18] Actual fan theory about a popular show from TV history, and then you try to guess the show. Put your tinfoil hats on, both of you. [55:30] First clue. The entire show is from the perspective of one of the bar's regulars. He's always drunk when he's there, which is why everyone seems so funny. Jim. Cheers. Cheers. That is correct. Next clue. [55:48] The main character is able to pay for his family's various misadventures because he still gets royalties from the hit Barbershop album that he was involved with. Jim. The Simpsons, Homer Simpson. This is correct. Homer Simpson in The Simpsons. The B Sharps. The main character is the airplane hijacker, D.B. Cooper. Jim. Mad Men. Mad Men. I'm also here. You have to press the space bar. I did.

[56:18] I did. You did? I did. Okay. Next clue. The young cast of this long-running show changes so frequently because they are preyed upon by the vampire who lives in their neighborhood. [56:32] Sesame Street. [56:35] Oh. [56:37] Fun. That's a great one. I will never watch that the same way again. Okay, next clue. The Meek HR guy is actually the local serial killer. Jim. That's The Office. That is The Office. Correct. These two animated shows actually take place at the same time in a society where the rich live in technologically advanced cities in the sky. [57:01] while the poor live in a primitive post-apocalyptic wasteland on the ground. Jim. The Flintstones and the Jetsons. That is correct. That is canon. That is now canon. I believe that's actually H.G. Wells' The Time Machine. Yeah, but the Flintstones are Morlocks. Okay, last clue. Oh, good. This is when I take it all away. This is when I take it home. You're definitely going to get this one. Okay. [57:31] is Cassian's sister, or maybe Dedramero is Cassian's sister. Jim. Okay, that's the Andor question that I know. That is from Andor. That is correct. Good news. Round three is theme songs. Oh, good. No, great news. Round three, The Greatest Show of 2025 is about the series Andor. This is my show, and I get to pick what we do. This entire category is about the series Andor.

[58:01] It's so great to be on the show. Thank you. I have to go now. [58:09] Audiences first met Cassian Andor in the film Rogue One, A Star Wars Story, which ends with Andor stealing the plans to what space station? Jim. I feel like I should just, like, get all these creatively wrong, for fairness, but the Death Star. The Death Star. That would be weird if you got that one wrong. [58:31] Portuguese, and what other language? The native tongue of composer Bela Bartok and actor Bela Lugosi. Hungarian? Oh, sorry. Hungarian, that is correct. Andor showrunner Tony Gilroy was nominated for Academy Awards for both writing and directing what 2007 George Clooney drama? Alexis. Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton. Oh, thank God. One of the best movies of the 21st century. Okay. [59:01] Next clue. Before he portrayed Cassian and or Diego Luna had roles in films, including Y Tu Mama También, Frida and what 2004 dance musical, a sequel to a classic film? Dirty Dancing, Havana Nights. Dirty Dancing, Havana Nights. That is correct. I do so well on the questions that are not actually about Andor. You thought you were not going to be competitive here. OK, next clue.

[59:31] for Golden Glove for his performance in Andor Season 2. Who was the last actor to be nominated for Golden Glove for his performance in a Star Wars property? Specifically for his role in 1977 Star Wars Episode 4, A New Hope, which is the first Star Wars, but actually is now titled Episode 4 because they did the prequels, which are Star Wars Episodes 1 through 3. Those canonically are the first three movies in the Star Wars saga, which now extend over nine films. [1:00:01] adolescence that involved being liked and dating girls. I had no girlfriends. There was like a question in there somewhere. Hold up. Hold up. [1:00:14] It's C-3PO. Basically, who was the last... [1:00:17] Person in a Star Wars movie to be nominated for a Golden Blade. But I'm still saying Harrison Ford. For shrinking. No, specifically for his role in a Star Wars movie. The answer is Alec Guinness. Of course. Okay. That is our game. Let us see what the score is. And the winner is Jim Potowasi. [1:00:39] Hooray. Hooray. I'm going to open this black bag, which usually holds a mic. [1:00:47] Jim, you have won a cheap plastic trophy with my face on it. It's called the Gilbey. Oh, I feel like I've won the second grade spelling bee all over again. Thank you, Gilbert. That makes me feel real, real good. Jim Ponowasek, thank you so much for coming on to talk about Best TV of the Year. Thank you. Alexis, you did wonderfully. I wish I'd been here.

[1:01:17] This episode was produced by Tina Antolini with help from Alex Barron, who is also our quiz master, and Kate Lopresti. It was edited by Wendy Doerr. We had production assistance from Dahlia Haddad. The Sunday special was engineered by Sophia Landman. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Alicia Baetup, and Diane Wong. [1:01:47] one final episode. [1:01:53] you [1:02:00] This week on The Wirecutter Show, we're going to have a new noise-canceling earbud pick. It has a fantastic noise-canceling microphone, like magical. We're taking your questions about headphones, earbuds, over-ear, Bluetooth, bone conduction. Lauren Dragon, longtime headphones writer for Wirecutter, answers it all with her expert recommendations. Find it wherever you like to listen.